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Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

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Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#931
post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea wow, I don't moderate r/askhistorians but rather a different sub, and we sometimes pride ourselves on keeping this relatively clean. But then I stumble across r/askhistorians again and remember that no, no we don't have things under control by comparison. We can barely keep a lid on the vitriol and toxicity, and some of the more blatantly false/scammy advice. r/askhistorians is a whole 'nother level. Sometimes I…

What do they do well that can be transferred without basically asking the mods to do more work? Isn't it just a manpower thing? Or do they have a way of verifying expertise etc so you know you're getting answers from experts without having to moderate each comment?

> What do they do well that can be transferred without basically asking the mods to do more work?

Nothing

> Isn't it just a manpower thing?

Yes

> Or do they have a way of verifying expertise etc so you know you're getting answers from experts without having to moderate each comment?

Well ok yeah I think they can vet expertise beforehand and then have a smaller list of approved posters, but most of the stuff I suspect just gets sent into the moderation queue requiring more humanpower to deal with.

That's why I say "I wish" heh, it's non practical here

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#932
post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea wow, I don't moderate r/askhistorians but rather a different sub, and we sometimes pride ourselves on keeping this relatively clean. But then I stumble across r/askhistorians again and remember that no, no we don't have things under control by comparison. We can barely keep a lid on the vitriol and toxicity, and some of the more blatantly false/scammy advice. r/askhistorians is a whole 'nother level. Sometimes I…

> Sometimes I honestly wish hackernews was run more like r/askhistorians. I don't. The moderation and voting/karma system on HN is much better than anything seen on Reddit. People have stupid opinions everywhere in life, but this is one of a few rare havens where it's incredibly easy to find deep and interesting conversation. Reddit ain't it.

You should spend some time on r/askhistorians then, because it's very much unlike the rest of reddit. It's not perfect of course, but...

I see more blatantly false armchair comments here at the top of threads loudly proclaiming something that is not correct than I do in r/askhistorians.

I can only tell when it's a topic that I'm actually expert in, so I don't know for sure. But, Gell Mann amnesia...

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#933
post #822

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a nonstandard and confusing use of the term.

If you think it's confusing, then the best I can say is that you have a _lot_ of reading to catch up on. But here is at least a very abbreviated primer on terminology to help alleviate your confusion https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652990/

No thanks, I'll just stick with the normal definitions of words rather than do "a _lot_ of reading" to learn what the latest ideological contortions are.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#934

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s try the opposite argument then: let’s give these fringe groups more prominent placement in the Reddit ecosystem. Surely it’s better to give them more of a voice so we can know what they have to say, than letting them put in the effort to make their voices heard, right? Maybe we should donate money to these groups to help them congregate in one place so we can easier keep an eye on them too. You don’t sell walki…

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that removing visibility into their motivations, by pushing the bulk of their activity in their insular communities offsite, allows them to more easily blend in and use less extreme language to push their disgusting viewpoints and manipulate conversations onsite. Essentially it reduces the ability to detect bad actors, is what I'm saying.

No, I understand: it's the idea that keeping them in the spotlight means we can keep tabs on them easier. I can see the appeal of that solution, but here's the problem: some people will legitimately go to /r/The_Donald to figure out what these people are thinking. Researchers, political operatives, etc. might find this very convenient. But the other effect this has is that (a) it gives them legitimacy (look! One of the larger subreddits on Reddit is an alt right haven!), and (b) most people aren't critical thinkers. They will see a political meme that mildly aligns with their beliefs, chuckle, move on. Until they see another, and another. Eventually, they'll notice a pattern: these memes are coming from TD, so they subscribe. Next thing you know, they are only getting their "news" from the TD memes, and suddenly they live in a political thought bubble getting further indoctrinated. That's what will happen with 99.9% of the people who end up on a subreddit like The_Donald, whether you like it or not. So in my estimation, the benefit of keeping TD around (easy visibility into the thought process of these individuals) is greatly outweighed by the drawbacks (providing them with easy means of recruitment and indoctrination).

Also, please keep in mind that for fringe groups like these Reddit is not their primary form of communication. That is, the community leaders don't just PM each other on Reddit or communicate via posts and comments. If there is any kind of organized effort here to effect real world change, it is coordinated by private chat, often times with assistance of anonymizing networks like Tor. Reddit is where people come into this world, but it's only floor 1 of the a vast underground bunker (for the communities where these things exist). Take 4chan as another internet dumpster fire. Anonymous periodically puts on their own campaigns like pridefall which can absolutely create real world problems. But they don't communicate through memes. When stuff starts working on that level, they are coordinating these things via better channels and that's happening today. If 4chan was to disappear, I firmly believe that core group would still be in touch and looking to set up another dumpster fire on another social media site, be it a private Facebook group, a Twitter community, a Discord server, or something else. But I'd rather they spend their time chasing their tail trying to get back to having external visibility than to have them do it in the open.

Also, they already have the opportunity to act more covertly, and they do. I am getting pretty good at spotting bad actors, but I'm sure I miss more. Some are pretty clever in their online interactions. Kicking them off Reddit doesn't give them any better tools to do this. They already can and already are doing this today.

If you want further proof of this, consider why the members of the KKK wear hoods. Could they do what they do in the open? Maybe. But because they are your neighbors, your politicians, your police officers, and your friends, they need a level of anonymity. Take that away and you make it harder for them to do what they do. Reddit provides the means for that open yet semi-anonymous MO. Taking it away doesn't mean they change their beliefs, but it makes it harder for them to do what they do.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#935

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's a different topic than the "punch a Nazi in the face" meme that repeats itself among the Orwellian types who see no problem Yes it is, indeed. I'd be quite OK with banning subreddits because of repeated use of memes about punching nazis with reference to Trump supporters. Which subreddits, specifically, did you have in mind? Can you provide links?

I guess you have never been to /r/news then?

I read it daily. Mods are quite effective at removing content like that. Do you have counterexamples?

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#936
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It went into both extremes unfortunately (the other extreme being the rise of militant SJWs).

There's no militant SJWs in the highest political office in the country. There's not even any in Congress.

Yeah they just control about every university. I'd argue it's even worse to have fanatics control what's supposed to be the most liberal places than to have a clown and moron for a president.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#937
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the Reddit and Youtube we need again.

IDK, the internet of that era was a pretty toxic place. Sexism and racism were rampant, such that many people I know IRL simply refused to participate in most internet spaces (including HN). This gave the impression that those viewpoints were mainstream, but that was never the case. I don't think losing out on so many voices of people who don't want to be around that stuff is worth it.

so who should get to device which people are blatantly censored and silenced on what is basically public space?

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#938
post #86
post #7

Worth taking note that in today's climate, you really cannot win when you are in a position to moderate important things that a lot of people use. There is constantly tremendous pressure on you to perform opposing actions, and even making no decision at all will cause you significant mental stress and harassment, regardles of what the issue is. You have to pick who you want to cave to, and to what extent, and no matt…

Would something decentralized help? I don't think people want that. The_Donald involved a lot of spreading their message / fake news sites / spamming across other subs and etc. Do people want to be on a platform where other folks on the same platform are targeting their community with dishonest and often bigoted content? I'm also not sure how much The_Donald was as a community. The sheer volume of users at its height…

“duxup” writes:
Do people want to be on a platform where other folks on the same platform are targeting their community with dishonest and often bigoted content?
Apparently, yes: Hundreds of millions of people are still on Facebook.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#939
post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Take his badge and gun" is the typical expression. That person replaced gun with manhood implying that the person's manhood is derived from them power-tripping with weapons. Threatening violence IN RESPONSE to violence is a far cry from INSTIGATING violence against peace. One is defending yourself against bullying by standing up to it with comparable force. The other is bullying. Is there nothing people like you won…

> Threatening violence IN RESPONSE to violence is a far cry from INSTIGATING violence against peace. So by that logic it was wrong for Twitter to sensor the President’s tweet regarding using force to stop vandals destroying monuments.

Why are conservatives so hell bent on equating violence against inanimate objects (property, monuments) with violence against other humans?

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#940
post #784
post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) The president was threatening physical harm to people who were destroying non-living objects. Violence and destruction are not the same thing. 2) An exceedingly large proportion of those statues were erected during exceedingly specific historical political climates, which generally feature the following: >Having been well after the events or the deaths of the figures commemorated >During periods of economic declin…

> 1) The president was threatening physical harm to people who were destroying non-living objects. Violence and destruction are not the same thing. They don’t have to be the same thing. It’s illegal activity and we shouldn’t have to wait for a person to be physically injured to stop a mob of maniacs. > 2) An exceedingly large proportion of those statues were erected during exceedingly specific historical political cl…

People have been trying to get the City, State, and federal government to acknowledge system racism for CENTURIES.

It doesn't work.

Protests and destruction may work.

You are showing that you are more committed to order than to justice, because it benefits you.

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

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