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Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

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Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#761

Post by koolba »

deanCommie wrote: post #585
Natsu wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I've seen almost all of those things on the front page of Reddit, too. Just recently, on the front page of reddit, I've seen a headline saying to cut off a cop's dick because he tasered someone (I believe it said 'take his badge and his manhood'), ACAB types have been threatening to kill cops, Reddit has doxxed the wrong people for major crimes, etc. It's particularly ironic because the original justification for…

"Take his badge and gun" is the typical expression. That person replaced gun with manhood implying that the person's manhood is derived from them power-tripping with weapons. Threatening violence IN RESPONSE to violence is a far cry from INSTIGATING violence against peace. One is defending yourself against bullying by standing up to it with comparable force. The other is bullying. Is there nothing people like you won…

> Threatening violence IN RESPONSE to violence is a far cry from INSTIGATING violence against peace.

So by that logic it was wrong for Twitter to sensor the President’s tweet regarding using force to stop vandals destroying monuments.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#762

Post by basch »

dmoy wrote: post #725
basch wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iron fist is a double edged sword in some senses. Although reddit acted as a free speech haven for a long time, it was only overall, and not ever in major specific communities. True free speech is valued because it fosters debate, and allows bad speech to be rebutted by more speech. A marketplace of ideas, and maybe more importantly, the counterspeech doctrine, are incredibly important principals in justifying th…

> True free speech is valued because it fosters debate, and allows bad speech to be rebutted by more speech Sure, but in practice this is what true free speech on reddit for a large sub looks like before moderation * 3 knee jerk replies * 10 pieces of spam asking you to buy their bit/altcoin or click on their affiliate links * 5 people who are hurling vile insults at you for whatever reason * 8 more people who are hu…

At no point did I intend to or hint at advocating for a lack of moderation. Moderation can be other things besides how it currently exists.

Any commenting system is going to need some way to value signal from noise, and popularity by itself isnt enough.

What I did say, was that moderation, as it stands now, has blowback, which includes but is not limited to creating and reinforcing refined groupthinks.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#763

Post by newfriend »

sgift wrote: post #531
lipstone wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you used reddit at all within the past 10 years? Yeah, there's some smaller subreddits that have right-wing views, but every frontpage sub leans heavily left. For example, the most common political debate right now isn't Biden vs. Trump, it's whether or not Biden is left-wing enough to deserve a vote.

From the perspective of someone from Europe this is a very valid question, cause Biden is right of the center, so not really what somehow who describes themselves as "leftist" usually votes for. Even Bernie Sanders, often seen as the start of socialism in America, is only a bit left of the center in typical political quadrants. The problem is that US politics are very skewed to the right, so many there think clear ri…

> The problem is that US politics are very skewed to the right, so many there think clear right wing positions are on the left.

Or maybe the problem is that EU politics are very skewed to the left, so many there think clear left wing positions are on the right.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#764

Post by [deleted] »

SmokeyHamster wrote: post #727
blisseyGo wrote: post #525

From Reddit: https://www.reddithelp.com/en/categories/rules-reporting/acc... > Marginalized or vulnerable groups include, but are not limited to, groups based on their actual and perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, immigration status, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, pregnancy, or disability. These include victims of a major violent event and their families. > While the rule on ha…

>the rule does not protect groups of people who are in the majority Wow. Like, holy shit wow. So racism and hate is ok with Reddit but only as long as it's directed at "the majority"? What the hell is the "majority"? I'm white. Yet I live in a city where blacks are the majority. Am I still the majority, meaning it's ok to harass me and send me hateful racist insults on Reddit, or would Reddit grant me honorary minori…

[deleted]

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#765

Post by dmoy »

basch wrote: post #762
dmoy wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> True free speech is valued because it fosters debate, and allows bad speech to be rebutted by more speech Sure, but in practice this is what true free speech on reddit for a large sub looks like before moderation * 3 knee jerk replies * 10 pieces of spam asking you to buy their bit/altcoin or click on their affiliate links * 5 people who are hurling vile insults at you for whatever reason * 8 more people who are hu…

At no point did I intend to or hint at advocating for a lack of moderation. Moderation can be other things besides how it currently exists. Any commenting system is going to need some way to value signal from noise, and popularity by itself isnt enough. What I did say, was that moderation, as it stands now, has blowback, which includes but is not limited to creating and reinforcing refined groupthinks.

Sure that's fair, though I don't know what else you mean by "true free speech"

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#766

Post by newacct583 »

mancerayder wrote: post #745
newacct583 wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To wit: the Freedom of Association enshrined in the first amendment includes the right to tell someone else to fuck right off.

Telling someone to fuck off is fine. If we're talking about Reddit and some group that goes around spamming other subreddits, that's a different topic than the "punch a Nazi in the face" meme that repeats itself among the Orwellian types who see no problem. Threatening someone by punching them in the face or social ostracism (which can range from discomfort to job loss) is a restriction of freedom of expression. That…

> that's a different topic than the "punch a Nazi in the face" meme that repeats itself among the Orwellian types who see no problem

Yes it is, indeed. I'd be quite OK with banning subreddits because of repeated use of memes about punching nazis with reference to Trump supporters.

Which subreddits, specifically, did you have in mind? Can you provide links?

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#767

Post by HeadsUpHigh »

basch wrote: post #683
ngold wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta respect the iron fist of /r/askhistorians. Probably the best sub on reddit.

The iron fist is a double edged sword in some senses. Although reddit acted as a free speech haven for a long time, it was only overall, and not ever in major specific communities. True free speech is valued because it fosters debate, and allows bad speech to be rebutted by more speech. A marketplace of ideas, and maybe more importantly, the counterspeech doctrine, are incredibly important principals in justifying th…

The loss of what.cd still saddens me every time I see it mentioned.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#768

Post by oska »

saltminer wrote: post #647
nullc wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People see what catches their attention. Some people would go there and read articles about gay women being attacked for choosing whom they took on as sexual partners. (I found it quite surprising and extremely rapey that anyone would consider it appropriate to be critical of anyone for choosing their consenting sexual partners however they like-- but it happens sometimes.) Or read about people being displaced from s…

Trans people were the subject of a great many, if not most of the posts on GC for the past few months I've paid attention to the sub. GC is a radical feminist hangout, as in SCUM Manifesto "men are the root of all evil and must be exterminated to liberate women"-flavor radical feminism, which lends itself to trans exclusion quite easily since you just have to view trans women as men for them to become evil fetishizer…

> you just have to view trans women as men

Men who 'identify' as women are still men (i.e. adult males). This is a biological reality that the vast majority of the population understands.

Promoting an ideological dogma such as "trans women are women" only proves you are an ideologue who thinks repeated chants can somehow deny reality. But no, classifying men as men is not a 'view', it is describing biological reality.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#769

Post by basch »

dmoy wrote: post #765
basch wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At no point did I intend to or hint at advocating for a lack of moderation. Moderation can be other things besides how it currently exists. Any commenting system is going to need some way to value signal from noise, and popularity by itself isnt enough. What I did say, was that moderation, as it stands now, has blowback, which includes but is not limited to creating and reinforcing refined groupthinks.

Sure that's fair, though I don't know what else you mean by "true free speech"

There are middle grounds between completely opaque censorship and unfettered yelling.

The junk mail folder in your email mailbox is an example. It offers transparency.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#770

Post by Natsu »

koolba wrote: post #761
deanCommie wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Take his badge and gun" is the typical expression. That person replaced gun with manhood implying that the person's manhood is derived from them power-tripping with weapons. Threatening violence IN RESPONSE to violence is a far cry from INSTIGATING violence against peace. One is defending yourself against bullying by standing up to it with comparable force. The other is bullying. Is there nothing people like you won…

> Threatening violence IN RESPONSE to violence is a far cry from INSTIGATING violence against peace. So by that logic it was wrong for Twitter to sensor the President’s tweet regarding using force to stop vandals destroying monuments.

Well, but those rioters were protesting police violence, who get called to deal with people who react violently to their presence due to the history of other police reacting violently to other people they were arresting acting violently who...

Wait, wasn't this the whole theme of the song "We didn't start the fire"?

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