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System Hardening in Android 11

security.googleblog.com

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Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#31

Post by mtgx »

> Prior to the Release of Android 10 we announced a new constrained sandbox for software codecs. We’re really pleased with the results. Thus far, Android 10 is the first Android release since the infamous stagefright vulnerabilities in Android 5.0 with zero critical-severity vulnerabilities in the media frameworks.

It wasn't mediatized, but there must have been like a new stagefright-like media library bug every 2-3 months since stagefright was first publicized. Glad to see this news.

Also, how are they enabling memory tagging if it's an Arm v8.5 feature and new Arm CPUs, except for Apple's own chips, don't seem to support newer than Arm v8.2? Is it just the software version of memory tagging (with some expected performance penalty)?

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#32

Post by mrbonner »

I don’t pretty much like Apple ecosystem but I have to say that the best decision I made technically was to switch to an iPhone 7 Plus 3 years ago after years of Android (since T-Mobile G1, first android phone ever). I said goodbye to a lot of customizations but at the same time regain my sanity from battery life, slowness and absurd support timelines

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#33

Post by californical »

freedomben wrote: post #20
sitic wrote: post #12

In addition on Android 11 API * apps can't simply access the "external" storage (enforces scoped storage) * apps can't get a list of all installed apps (package visibility, they can specify app names and intent signatures in the Manifest they want to query) These are welcome changes in my view, but unfortunately they also seem intend to fix SafetyNet and require hardware attestation that the bootloader is not unlocke…

You're upset about them requiring hardware attestation in SafetyNet (I am too) so you move to a platform that is way less flexible and way more closed? Not a troll, I'm really curious.

I can give an anecdote.

I love most things about iOS design more than Android, and I've used both, but have stuck with Android over the last 7-8ish years. Mainly because of the amount that I could customize things, freely make little app projects, install custom ROMs, etc. Over the last few years, it's gotten inconvenient to tinker, and I just don't find myself bothering with it anymore. I've run into issues where certain apps stop working because of root.

But also both OS's have gotten much better and need fewer (if any) tweaks anyways to be used effectively. Especially with the upcoming change to allow iOS to use a different default browser (finally).

If the main reason I've been drawn to Android is vanishing more every year, I'd rather use the more elegant OS (Apple), regardless of how closed it is. I have a Pixel 2 that's getting near EOL (only 2 years after buying it), and I'll be getting an iPhone SE as soon as I can justify spending the money.

I guess something that helps too is I've been on a de-googling kick these last few months where I've been switching off all their services because of privacy, another benefit of iOS to me

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#35

Post by pjmlp »

tjoff wrote: post #19

I'm mostly worried about Termux. I can't imagine a phone without a decent terminal and I feel my options are going to be severely limited.

The option is simple although tiresome, reimplement it in Android Java or Kotlin, instead of trying to pretend Android is Linux, given that POSIX or Linux specific calls aren't even part of NDK Stable APIs documentation.

Any app that access the Linux features directly just works out of luck, given that there are no compatibility guarantees.

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#36

Post by ocdtrekkie »

freedomben wrote: post #20
sitic wrote: post #12

In addition on Android 11 API * apps can't simply access the "external" storage (enforces scoped storage) * apps can't get a list of all installed apps (package visibility, they can specify app names and intent signatures in the Manifest they want to query) These are welcome changes in my view, but unfortunately they also seem intend to fix SafetyNet and require hardware attestation that the bootloader is not unlocke…

You're upset about them requiring hardware attestation in SafetyNet (I am too) so you move to a platform that is way less flexible and way more closed? Not a troll, I'm really curious.

For me, Play Services is a non-starter: It's malware, plain and simple. For a couple years I tried to use Android without Google services, but I found it too restrictive. Most apps I'd want/need to use wouldn't even run without Google Play, even if you got the APK, since there's not really a good app store that has a lot of Android apps without Google Play. (F-Droid's hard-line open source requirement is too restrictive for my daily driver.)

I went to Windows Mobile for a while, it had more apps than a non-Google Android phone as it was, but obviously that's dead now as Microsoft has left the consumer space and literally told everyone to go buy Android phones.

Until antitrust happens, iPhone is really all that's left. I've got a PinePhone too, and I'm pretty excited about it, but it'll probably be a while until it reaches Windows Mobile-level of app availability. I've been pleasantly surprised by Apple's pro-privacy moves since I bought it, and if they're opening up changing default apps this year too, really the most problematic limitation is going to be gone.

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#37

Post by pjmlp »

asveikau wrote: post #9
stephc_int13 wrote: post #4

"In Android 11, Scudo [1] replaces jemalloc as the default native allocator for Android. Scudo is a hardened memory allocator designed to help detect and mitigate memory corruption bugs in the heap" I am curious about the performance impact of this change. [1] https://source.android.com/devices/tech/debug/scudo

Most Android apps probably allocate more with the JVM than they do malloc, right? My intuitive guess is that they could regress the performance of libc malloc and many people wouldn't notice.

Yes, the NDK main goal is for writing native libraries, not full blown applications.

Although native memory allocations can happen via ByteBuffer, HardwareBuffer, image decoders, or native libraries.

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#38

Post by ocdtrekkie »

Vespasian wrote: post #17
sitic wrote: post #12

In addition on Android 11 API * apps can't simply access the "external" storage (enforces scoped storage) * apps can't get a list of all installed apps (package visibility, they can specify app names and intent signatures in the Manifest they want to query) These are welcome changes in my view, but unfortunately they also seem intend to fix SafetyNet and require hardware attestation that the bootloader is not unlocke…

The security changes are nice and needed so well done. Enforcing SafetyNet is probably also a net positive change, and you (and I) are a minority among the general user base. Sadly this was always coming, it was nice while it lasted, I guess. I'm not quite sure what I will do once my current phone dies. I don't see myself investing in the Apple ecosphere, so either go with the time (do nothing) or have a second phone…

If you have wireless chargers and don't really want paid apps, you can reasonably avoid "investing" much in the Apple ecosphere these days: I have not once since switching bought something with a Lightning connector on it, and I rarely use the charger that came with it either. And the new iPhone SE is more or less the cheapest way to get a phone that's updated and well-supported.

Re: System Hardening in Android 11

#40

Post by sangfroid_bio »

sitic wrote: post #12

In addition on Android 11 API * apps can't simply access the "external" storage (enforces scoped storage) * apps can't get a list of all installed apps (package visibility, they can specify app names and intent signatures in the Manifest they want to query) These are welcome changes in my view, but unfortunately they also seem intend to fix SafetyNet and require hardware attestation that the bootloader is not unlocke…

Another duopoly that needs more competition is push notification infrastructure. Efficient push notification requires OS vendor server support due to radio usage and agreements with telecommunication companies. Everybody is obsessed with closed app stores and completely missing the net neutrality aspect of the iOS/Android duopoly.
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