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Declining eyesight improved by looking at deep red light

sciencedaily.com

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Re: Declining eyesight improved by looking at deep red light

#81

Post by meddlepal »

Markoff wrote: post #51
aaron695 wrote: post #25

If this is real it's a huge deal. But unless they did a pre study release this is P hacked to death. 24 people, then narrowed to only over 40, 20% difference in some frequencies. If science worked we'd immediately re-test this. The cost savings per year could be enormous if it's true.

SOME over 40, not even all over 40 and SOME of these up to 20%, I guess the others less or no difference, so in the end you end up with individuals you can count on one hand if they were serious why they didn't try this only on one eye to compare the effect on each person?

Doing it on one eye per person would leave people with very unbalanced vision if it works great. That creates a QoL issue. Not enough understanding of the mechanism to then correct the other eye to the same level other than trying a "state at it for the same time approach".

Re: Declining eyesight improved by looking at deep red light

#83

Post by manmal »

Uptrenda wrote: post #36

This makes me think of Bulletproof Executive's self-improvement blog. He was always talking about mitochondria and hacking cells with certain light wave-lengths and lasers. I thought it was very far-fetched at the time... but maybe he was onto something. Related links: https://www.bulletproof.com/sleep/sleep-hacks/light-hacking-... He talks about the red light idea there and the crazy laser idea I'm remembering I thi…

It’s not far fetched at all. There are thousands of studies on the benefits of red light and near infrared light. Here’s the most comprehensive collection I have seen yet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZKl5Me4XwPj4YgJCBes3...

Re: Declining eyesight improved by looking at deep red light

#84

Post by joshvm »

alister wrote: post #29
alister wrote: post #2

Questions: (a) Does this study sound plausible? (b) Would staring at the correct red color on a monitor work? Or would that not work since monitor colors are generated by mixing R, G, and B pixels and therefore not a pure wavelength? (c) Would it be reasonable methodology to test one eye to see if it improves over the other eye?

Another question: (d) How much does the precise wavelength matter? The study used 670nm but also mentions the range 650-1000nm. Lots of red-light gadgets are available on Amazon but how do you verify the wavelength? I was thinking of an optical spectrum analyzer[1] but at $28,000 they are shockingly expensive. Even with raw LEDs bought from a reliable electronics distributor like Digi-Key, it would be nice to be able…

You can get a 1nm resolution "science grade" spectrometer for under £1k - I used to design them [1]. You can also buy used ocean optics kit for very reasonable prices on eBay (a few hundred for a USB2000 if you wait).

Or make your own? It'll probably be good enough https://publiclab.org/w/spectrometry

ThorLabs also sell cheaper spectrometers by the way. You don't need a spectrum analyser with seven significant figures! https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=34...

You can also get light testing devices used for film/industrial illumination https://www.sekonic.com/color-meter/c700 (about 1.5-2k)

Or even single chip spectrometers with broad 20nm resolution from Hamamatsu (about £400 on group gets). https://groupgets.com/manufacturers/hamamatsu-photonics/prod...

[1] https://is-instruments.com/products/miniature-spectrometer/

Re: Declining eyesight improved by looking at deep red light

#85

Post by saiya-jin »

chadcmulligan wrote: post #66
verdverm wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I bought a squatty potty and make sure to walk for an hour most days. Physical evolution does not keep up so well with modern society's pace of change and understandings therein.

> walk for an hour most days I've started doing the 10,000+ steps for a couple of years, and yes there does seem to be a difference to my health and energy.

Why shouldn't it, all parts of the body needs a frequent stimulation, otherwise process of minimizing energy output (ie for tissue maintenance, repair of muscles and joints, etc.) kicks in.

Our bodies are a bit dumb in this, albeit with good intentions - momentarily preserve energy, make body weaker long term. It made sense in the past though, otherwise we wouldn't be probably here.

Re: Declining eyesight improved by looking at deep red light

#86

Post by kaybe »

alister wrote: post #29
alister wrote: post #2

Questions: (a) Does this study sound plausible? (b) Would staring at the correct red color on a monitor work? Or would that not work since monitor colors are generated by mixing R, G, and B pixels and therefore not a pure wavelength? (c) Would it be reasonable methodology to test one eye to see if it improves over the other eye?

Another question: (d) How much does the precise wavelength matter? The study used 670nm but also mentions the range 650-1000nm. Lots of red-light gadgets are available on Amazon but how do you verify the wavelength? I was thinking of an optical spectrum analyzer[1] but at $28,000 they are shockingly expensive. Even with raw LEDs bought from a reliable electronics distributor like Digi-Key, it would be nice to be able…

We like these (or rather, the whole line):

https://www.avantes.com/products/spectrometers/compactline/i...

You can get them used for below 1000$, eg this listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Avantes-Compactline-Avaspec-Mini-/3...

Re: Declining eyesight improved by looking at deep red light

#87

Post by emn13 »

alister wrote: post #2

Questions: (a) Does this study sound plausible? (b) Would staring at the correct red color on a monitor work? Or would that not work since monitor colors are generated by mixing R, G, and B pixels and therefore not a pure wavelength? (c) Would it be reasonable methodology to test one eye to see if it improves over the other eye?

As to question (b): the wavelength is not the same.

The red primaries in most color spaces, including wide-ish stuff like DCI-P3 is around 615. Even Rec 2020 is just 630.

https://clarkvision.com/articles/color-spaces/

Note that it's fairly common to see chromaticity diagrams labelled with wavelengths around the edges, so you can check multiple sources if you want.

I didn't read the original article in sufficient depth to tell you if the researchers even know what 615nm would do, but it's not 670nm anyhow ;-).

Incidentally, the linked article also includes measured spectral responses for a few wide gamut screens, some of which have at least some response near 670nm. The most extreme on that page was the Del 3007WFP-HC LED, which peaked at 653, and has a wide peak hitting well over 700nm too (but below 650 too). A 2019 model Samsung Q80R qled TV (perhaps more common), had a peak at 632 nm, and at 670nm is about 20% as bright as at its peak.

Re: Declining eyesight improved by looking at deep red light

#88

Post by 1MachineElf »

Uptrenda wrote: post #36

This makes me think of Bulletproof Executive's self-improvement blog. He was always talking about mitochondria and hacking cells with certain light wave-lengths and lasers. I thought it was very far-fetched at the time... but maybe he was onto something. Related links: https://www.bulletproof.com/sleep/sleep-hacks/light-hacking-... He talks about the red light idea there and the crazy laser idea I'm remembering I thi…

Several years ago, Dave Asprey (Bulletproof Executive) was one of the most positive influences on my diet/wellness. It's too bad that his constant hustle, eccentricity, and "going against the mainstream" attitude rub a lot of people the wrong way.

Re: Declining eyesight improved by looking at deep red light

#89

Post by theelous3 »

neom wrote: post #76
neom wrote: post #18

A quick google search shows that 670nm lights are quite commonly made and easy to obtain, amazon has a plethora of them (although 660nm is considerably more common).

I emailed the professor who did the research and asked about 660 vs 670: "Yes I am aware that the 670nm LEDs are hard to come by, they are also rather variable between batches which has caused a lot of problems for us as we now have to test extensively. I think 660nm will work. Question is, will it work as well as the 670nm? I suspect not. But also I do not know if this can be compensated for by longer exposures etc…

Nice. Good job reaching out to the horses mouth :)

Re: Declining eyesight improved by looking at deep red light

#90

Post by joezydeco »

cycomanic wrote: post #37
alister wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another question: (d) How much does the precise wavelength matter? The study used 670nm but also mentions the range 650-1000nm. Lots of red-light gadgets are available on Amazon but how do you verify the wavelength? I was thinking of an optical spectrum analyzer[1] but at $28,000 they are shockingly expensive. Even with raw LEDs bought from a reliable electronics distributor like Digi-Key, it would be nice to be able…

I suspect you do not need to use 670nm exactly, however I suspect you need to be above 650nm. Note that many red LEDs are at a lower wavelength (~630nm). So you need to search for deep red or by wavelength. You can use a OSA, but yes they are expensive. Spectrometers are typically cheaper, but still expensive (you could go to a university optics group and ask them if they could measure it for you). That said if you b…

Instead of trying to emit 670nm, why not just use a wide spectrum source and a 670nm bandpass filter?
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