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China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

bbc.com

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Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#71

Post by raxxorrax »

arcticbull wrote: post #2

This is the death knell for Hong Kong and for One Country, Two Systems -- which has effectively been over in Macau for years. I can't help but wonder if things would have been different if the US had different leadership -- actually interested in furthering the cause of freedom and democracy throughout the world. While of course the UK is responsible for policing the handover agreement, it's been too busy staring dow…

It is nothing you can blame leadership for. Platforms on the net are currently banning 'hate' or dissent without justification. "The west" looks like a oppressive regime that has problems with racial tensions. HKers just don't get support for freedom or self expression or democracy in the current situation. The image the west paints is that platforms get sanitized in the interest of advertisers. The time to strike was now and they did.

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#72

Post by rootsudo »

Removed from title is that it just passed and is going to be enforced going forth from July 1st. Less than 24 hours.

This is key because July 1st used to be the annual HK march since 1997, or the hand over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1_July_marches

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#73

Post by raxxorrax »

Lio wrote: post #23
arcticbull wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell, Brexit was largely driven by discontent around Polish migration. There's over a million Polish citizens in the UK. This is a pretty good read [1]. [1] https://www.humanityinaction.org/knowledge_detail/understand...

Poles are well thought of here. The meme of the hard working Polish builder is well known. I think one Pro-brexit faction created disinformation around Romanian immigrants. The other main brexit faction created a meme around “taking back control” from bureaucrats. Neither is based on reality.

What is based in reality is that the law isn't applied to everyone equally. That has to do with opportunistic politics and self presentation.

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#74

Post by core-questions »

fuoqi wrote: post #16
arcticbull wrote: post #2

This is the death knell for Hong Kong and for One Country, Two Systems -- which has effectively been over in Macau for years. I can't help but wonder if things would have been different if the US had different leadership -- actually interested in furthering the cause of freedom and democracy throughout the world. While of course the UK is responsible for policing the handover agreement, it's been too busy staring dow…

It's ironic that the convoluted Hong Kong "democracy" system was directly created by British colonial administration. And this system is largely responsible for limiting ability of Hong Kong citizens to control political power in their city and thus resist mainland power grabs.

> And this system is largely responsible for limiting ability of Hong Kong citizens to control political power in their city

Relative to what? Relative to what they had in place before? Or relative to some system you've dreamed up?

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#75

Post by politicdone »

ralph84 wrote: post #9

I thought China would wait to take Taiwan first, so they could limit resistance in Taiwan by saying "we'll let you have your own system like we did in Hong Kong." Now that China has reneged on Hong Kong, Taiwan won't believe them.

they would have reneged had they not promulgated a law. the basic law which Britain and China agreed to and produced before 1997 requires article 23 and says matters of defense and foreign affairs are the responsibilities of the central government. it's not hard to consider that matters of national security also responsibilities of the central government. Hong Kong failed to fulfill its duty under the agreement. this law added to annex 3 is not a substitute for Hong Kong's unenacted article 23. it is there because Hong Kong failed to enact its own legislation.

the notion that this is China breaking the basic law or the joint declaration is just fuel to stoke the fires of anti-china sentiment to distract from problems at home. this sort of emotive fake news is required in a democratic system as people need to be compelled to vote as well as not focus on undelivered results. what is occurring now in HK is only the inevitable consequence of the joint declaration and the basic law to which all parties agreed and about which no other country ever complained until now. isn't it a little hypocritical that countries want to protect their own national security then object when China wants to protect its? who's unhappy with a plan to catch a thief? only the thief. so who wants to make up such stories? only those who need to keep their people focused on the next two minutes of hate

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#76

Post by obiye »

koonsolo wrote: post #58
obiye wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US foreign policy has obviously always been very far from perfect, but this kind of equivocation is destructive and pointlessly cynical. Russia and China aspire to nothing. Even if we fail them most of the time, at least the US has ideals. If you were given the chance to live in the US vs one of the other “empires” would you really choose somewhere else? For all our faults, you know the answer is no.

Russia takes care of Russia, China takes care of China, and well, US takes care of US, but acts as if they take care of the world. US foreign policy is meant to improve US. If you don't agree, please give me an example where they wanted to "spread democracy" without any personal gain. And I'm perfectly fine here in EU thank you very much.

> implying the EU is a world power

Ok thanks for your opinion lol

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#77

Post by obiye »

yoav wrote: post #56
obiye wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US foreign policy has obviously always been very far from perfect, but this kind of equivocation is destructive and pointlessly cynical. Russia and China aspire to nothing. Even if we fail them most of the time, at least the US has ideals. If you were given the chance to live in the US vs one of the other “empires” would you really choose somewhere else? For all our faults, you know the answer is no.

The US is an oppressive surveillance state with regular police murdering minorities, rampant white supremacy, and when not in the middle of catastrophically mishandling a pandemic, has a mass shooting every day of the year. To most people outside the US’s branding sway there’s very little difference between a USA and a Russia or China

Right. That’s why millions of people clamor every year to immigrate to Russia for a better life. Get a grip. The world is not black and white.

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#78

Post by iliketosleep »

ztratar wrote: post #55
vincvinc wrote: post #41

I know this is not on many people's radar right now, but I strongly believe the rise of Xi's authoritarian nationalism is the biggest story of this century (after global warming). And this is our generation's "Berlin wall moment". By itself, you might look at this law (after it's published) and not see anything bad. But in the greater context of Chinese policy choices of the last few years, this is nothing less than…

Not sure why this is downvoted, so plz have an upvote!

Posts that are critical of China's gov. will automatically get downvotes from a particular subset of people.

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#79

Post by baylearn »

vincvinc wrote: post #41

I know this is not on many people's radar right now, but I strongly believe the rise of Xi's authoritarian nationalism is the biggest story of this century (after global warming). And this is our generation's "Berlin wall moment". By itself, you might look at this law (after it's published) and not see anything bad. But in the greater context of Chinese policy choices of the last few years, this is nothing less than…

Upvoted.

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#80

Post by teekert »

obiye wrote: post #52
boomboomsubban wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't help but wonder if things would have been different if the US had different leadership - actually interested in furthering the cause of freedom and democracy throughout the world What US leader in the past fifty years has been interested in those ideals? Certainly not Obama, with how he handled events in Yemen, Libya, and Syria, not to mention the assassination program. And his predecessors weren't any bett…

US foreign policy has obviously always been very far from perfect, but this kind of equivocation is destructive and pointlessly cynical. Russia and China aspire to nothing. Even if we fail them most of the time, at least the US has ideals. If you were given the chance to live in the US vs one of the other “empires” would you really choose somewhere else? For all our faults, you know the answer is no.

I think you need to read this book : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit...
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