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China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

bbc.com

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Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#61

Post by creato »

yoav wrote: post #56
obiye wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US foreign policy has obviously always been very far from perfect, but this kind of equivocation is destructive and pointlessly cynical. Russia and China aspire to nothing. Even if we fail them most of the time, at least the US has ideals. If you were given the chance to live in the US vs one of the other “empires” would you really choose somewhere else? For all our faults, you know the answer is no.

The US is an oppressive surveillance state with regular police murdering minorities, rampant white supremacy, and when not in the middle of catastrophically mishandling a pandemic, has a mass shooting every day of the year. To most people outside the US’s branding sway there’s very little difference between a USA and a Russia or China

Would you rather live in North Korea or South Korea? Hong Kong or Taiwan? West Germany or East Germany?

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#62

Post by ipiz0618 »

arcticbull wrote: post #2

This is the death knell for Hong Kong and for One Country, Two Systems -- which has effectively been over in Macau for years. I can't help but wonder if things would have been different if the US had different leadership -- actually interested in furthering the cause of freedom and democracy throughout the world. While of course the UK is responsible for policing the handover agreement, it's been too busy staring dow…

Imo, the current leadership, as a whole, has taken a far more aggressive stance against China than any of their predecessors. Not saying the US will free Hong Kong single-handedly, but there's progress. Some senators like Josh Hawley are very active in this issue.

Many Hong Kongers will choose to flee, but more choose to stay. The future for Hong Kong is a grim one, and it's getting closer and closer to the worst scenario that we have imagined from the start - the whole city turning into what XinJiang is like now, only with more advanced technology because of the well-established infrastructure in Hong Kong.

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#63

Post by av_engr »

fuoqi wrote: post #35
almost_usual wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Hong Kong becomes autonomous Hong Kong and they decide what they want?

How about everyone becomes rich, smart and healthy?

If they are working for it, then yea?

Sounds like HKers are working hard for it and on a legal basis it's their right to make their own law within Basic Law , so what's your point here?

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#64

Post by ackbar03 »

arcticbull wrote: post #2

This is the death knell for Hong Kong and for One Country, Two Systems -- which has effectively been over in Macau for years. I can't help but wonder if things would have been different if the US had different leadership -- actually interested in furthering the cause of freedom and democracy throughout the world. While of course the UK is responsible for policing the handover agreement, it's been too busy staring dow…

> I can't help but wonder if things would have been different if the US

Honestly not trying to be snarky or anything but purely observationally, I find it interesting how people automatically default to thinking America should have done something about something going on in a completely different country of which they do not really understand the history and culture.

And if you've been following global developments on any scale, you would have realized the time to learn mandarin was a long time ago

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#65

Post by politicdone »

vincvinc wrote: post #41

I know this is not on many people's radar right now, but I strongly believe the rise of Xi's authoritarian nationalism is the biggest story of this century (after global warming). And this is our generation's "Berlin wall moment". By itself, you might look at this law (after it's published) and not see anything bad. But in the greater context of Chinese policy choices of the last few years, this is nothing less than…

congratulations on finding your life's meaning in a pointless struggle to change the nature of the world

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#68

Post by av_engr »

c3zh wrote: post #11
arcticbull wrote: post #2

This is the death knell for Hong Kong and for One Country, Two Systems -- which has effectively been over in Macau for years. I can't help but wonder if things would have been different if the US had different leadership -- actually interested in furthering the cause of freedom and democracy throughout the world. While of course the UK is responsible for policing the handover agreement, it's been too busy staring dow…

The thing is the protesters are not wanting One Country Two Systems, but Two countries. They are weaving US and UK flags when protesting, telling everyone that they are not Chinese. And the list goes on. I don't think either US or UK can tolerant things like this for more than a year. Update: I can't reply any more because Hacker News thinks I'm posting too much. So please let me thanks you all for replying here. And…

Now where do 5 demands state independence?

Flags of other countries (mostly dominant countries like US and UK) were raised due to US and UK had huge stake in HK from the international treaty of the 1984 joint declaration. Since China has broken the promise of 1 country 2 system, UK has the absolute right to hold China accountable for its action because it was an international treaty signed by China and UK. US also gives HK special economic treatment, so US has the power to withdraw the treatment if HK is no longer autonomous.

It doesn't make sense to compare HK and US/UK. Over 2 million marched in HK and the government barely listened to its people. Also, HK has no universal suffrage so obviously the government don't have to worry about people's vote. (Except the "committee" that votes the chief exec)

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#69

Post by throwawy1391273 »

amriksohata wrote: post #57

The people of Tibet, Taiwan and Hong Kong are all feeling the same about China and now add India to the list with the recent tiktok ban.

> India to the list with the recent tiktok ban.

LOL.You must be having some good weed down there.

Re: China has passed a national security law for Hong Kong

#70

Post by hyperman1 »

obiye wrote: post #52
boomboomsubban wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't help but wonder if things would have been different if the US had different leadership - actually interested in furthering the cause of freedom and democracy throughout the world What US leader in the past fifty years has been interested in those ideals? Certainly not Obama, with how he handled events in Yemen, Libya, and Syria, not to mention the assassination program. And his predecessors weren't any bett…

US foreign policy has obviously always been very far from perfect, but this kind of equivocation is destructive and pointlessly cynical. Russia and China aspire to nothing. Even if we fail them most of the time, at least the US has ideals. If you were given the chance to live in the US vs one of the other “empires” would you really choose somewhere else? For all our faults, you know the answer is no.

I recently learned some about the Chinese vision: China aspires to long-term stability first.

China had in its past times where the country's internal organization broke down, resulting in famine, ... Lots of people died.

As a result, Confucianism has risen: A vision where individual freedom is seen as a danger to that internal organization. Hence, it should be tempered by strict loyalty to the family, with the whole China being a sort of extended family. The elders and superiors should be obeyed, not necessarily because they are better people, but because this represents stability. In turn, these elders and superiors should be better people, with traits as benevolence,integrity and righteousness.

I am happy I live in Europe, not China, but looking at the state of most western democracy's today, I can have some understanding for this vision.

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