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Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

blog.anylist.com

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Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#331

Post by lilyball »

randomchars wrote: post #328
msh wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user I can't see why any random app needs to know my true email address.

From the article: > If a customer contacts us asking for support, and we need to look up something in their account, typically we can just ask them for the email address on their account. But with “Hide My Email” that wouldn’t be easily possible, because the customer would have to figure out the privaterelay.appleid.com email address used for their account. > Furthermore, if there are platforms where AnyList doesn’t…

For the first point, the app can explicitly tell the user what their login is, or otherwise assign some unique identifier the user can use when contacting support. The app can also offer to contact support for them, which can pre-fill the user identifier.

For the second, that’s entirely the user’s choice. Your app can also allow them to associate a new email address for this purpose (which strikes me as exactly what you actually want since the real unstated motivation here is getting the user’s email).

For the third, don’t make me type in someone’s email. The exact same issue as described happens if they have multiple email addresses too. Just let me use my OS’s sharing mechanism to send a special link that they can open to establish the sharing connection. An invite to share, as it were. Not only does that solve the problem, it’s significantly more user-friendly.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#332

Post by nikitaga »

dev_tty01 wrote: post #300
nikitaga wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With rare specialized exceptions, pretty much nobody needs all this complexity. Certainly not a simple app like AnyList. All this flexibility is not free, it comes at the cost of obviousness, as they described. It's not worth it much of the time. The real problem is Apple shoving their proprietary, poorly designed services down everyone's throats. No, I don't want to use icloud email, I already have an email address.…

You can create an iCloud account with your own email address. That avoids getting another email address. When using Apple login, Apple offers the choice of providing an anonymous email to the third party or your actual email. It's up to you. Its about user choice. More privacy or less. Apple wants you to have a choice. Use it or not.

Then why do most of my non-tech relatives have an @icloud.com address that they never needed and never read?

Blame the user all you want, but their "choice" was guided by Apple designed UI and Apple provided defaults. Whatever it is, it's producing optimal outcomes for Apple and no one else.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#333

Post by mcintyre1994 »

crazygringo wrote: post #157

As they point out at the very bottom, all their arguments apply to all third-party sign-ons, so they're removing Facebook as well. So there's nothing specifically against Apple, despite the title seeming to imply it -- just that they're taking the move right now because of Apple's new policy coming into effect. I've got to say, I really wish there were a way to know whether I already used Facebook, Google, or Apple t…

> As they point out at the very bottom, all their arguments apply to all third-party sign-ons, so they're removing Facebook as well.

Nope, some of them also apply to Facebook, and Facebook has the additional destruction of privacy concern. They have to remove Facebook or support Apple too because of the policy and have chose neither instead of both.

Some of their concerns specifically don’t apply to Facebook/Google/anything directly tied to your real email that you’d otherwise choose to sign up with. You add a bit of complexity to your database to record different login types, but you can easily reconcile them to an existing user if the emails match, and provide the features they want like searching for a user by email.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#334

Post by [deleted] »

nashashmi wrote: post #287
intellirogue wrote: post #3

Worth noting that AnyList automatically subscribed me to a marketing list without double opt-in or any kind of consent, which is exactly the kind of behaviour that makes me not want apps to have my real email address.

This. The blog post was long and winded. And it brought up some very desperate arguments, like the bug bounty offered to hackers when they report security vulnerabilities. They want people's email addresses, period. They say that no email breaks the sharing feature. True. But that's something that can be offered later when someone actually does share something with you. They say that the emails will go to the a seldo…

[deleted]

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#335

Post by filleduchaos »

JAlexoid wrote: post #299
persona wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that this makes more sense in the real world than in a diagram, after being burnt in multiple real life experiences :) The assumption both you and AnyList are making is that an email is "THE obvious choice". From a user experience perspective perhaps this "global sharing identifier" should be defined by them. You'll notice that different generations have different online behaviors. For some, email is their…

That's a very idealistic opinion. People don't care about usernames and other crap. They want an easy option - enter email, communicate over email and be found using email. This isn't their banking app or anything that important.

Nobody "wants to use their email". They just want to start using whatever app or service they're trying to connect to as quickly as possible - why exactly do you think "Sign in with X" became so popular in the first place?

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#336

Post by X-Istence »

tzs wrote: post #265
mns wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems strange to me. My iCloud account is my Gmail address (even though I also have an iCloud one on the account) and when I use Sign in with Apple I get an option to redirect all emails to Gmail. But the system is indeed weird, I signed up for an account in an app with bike routes and wanted later to check it in the browser and had no idea what or how to find out what my account is or how should I sign in (coul…

Things may differ from person to person depending on when they created their Apple account(s). At first, before they had cloud services, you created an Apple account to purchase things from the iTunes store. You could use any email address. Then they created MobileMe (which was rebranded to .Mac), and that came with an email address @mac.com. (I believe there were a couple of other domains you could choose instead, b…

Even if you have alternate email addresses associated with your iCloud account, you are free to update it to have your external email address be the default for your iCloud/Apple ID.

Visit https://appleid.apple.com/account/manage to make those changes.

Help article: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202667

Although I will note that it says you can't change your Apple ID email address if you choose an @me.com, @mac.com, or @icloud.com email address for your Apple ID, which is the first time I've seen that warning.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#338

Post by jzzskijj »

Larrikin wrote: post #91
jzzskijj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pokemon Go's account own doesn't work. Even if you manage to create that account, it won't log you in. With Google account it works as expected. I tried to create two Pokemon Go accounts, gave up and created a Pokemon Go only Google account for child's playing. It has worked a few years.

When did you have this issue? My account is tied to my Google account because on launch the Go servers were completely inundated and the account creation was just constantly failing but using a Google account allowed you to skip that step and start playing. This was the first month of Pokemon Go years ago. I haven't heard of it being an issue lately but I also haven't needed to create an account in a very long time.

I think the first time was around the spring 2017. I could create an account, use the credentials to log in, but trying on several days the game never started. There was some "please wait" kind of screen and waiting for hours didn't help. With a Google account things worked right away.

And a bit over a year the same thing happened. New Pokemon Go account -> log in -> no game. With Google account has been working since.

So, my experience is two tries in the span of two years it did not work.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#339

Post by c3534l »

sudoit wrote: post #277
AnonC wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obfuscation of the email address is an explicit choice by the user when using Sign in with Apple. It’s not something forced by the service. If users are choosing to do that, it says something about the lack of trust the users have with whatever they’re signing up for.

Not necessarily. I have an app with 1,000 users, and about 99% of them choose to obfuscate. My app isn’t untrustworthy at all either. It’s an experimental app which attempts to let users create an iOS app on iOS. My suspicion is that people choose to obfuscate because it’s what’s selected by default.

It's also likely that 99% of users have no reason to share their email with you. Also, your app is extremely untrustworthy. It sounds like a random app you find by searching for key words. You're not Microsoft or Google, you have no reputation or credibility. They have no relationship with you, they don't know you, they likely have never interacted with your company before this.

If I need an email to verify I'm not a bot, that's fine. But if a trusted 3rd party can verify I'm not a bot, then the only reason you would want my email is to do something unethical with it: namely, use my data in a way that I never intended gave you permission to use it.

Being default probably helps, because most people don't know they're doing with software and just accept the defaults assuming they're best practices. If the default were to share the email, you might see more people sharing email, but I would argue it's because people don't know they can and should obfuscate it.

Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple

#340

Post by Mirioron »

sky_rw wrote: post #293
imron wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't share my "real" email address with Facebook. Don't worry, they know it anyway.

My gf googled a Mexican restaurant neither of us had been too on her phone and when we got in my truck literally 5 minutes later android auto maps on my phone suggested it as a destination. If they can do this, they can get your other email addresses.

Wait, why? If both of you have your location info turned on then this seems like a trivial correlation to make, especially since both of these are Google's own services.
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