I'd like to see Apple allow users to use "Sign in with Apple" to maintain Apple ID account and purchase hardware/software? Imagine if they had to go through what they're asking all the services on their platform to go through... yeah... never gonna happen. Bravo AnyList for calling Apple out for pushing immature software ecosystem harmful software agenda.
Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple
261–270 of 485 posts
Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple
#262All of them good points. I'll add another wrinkle; for some reasons I can barely remember, I have 2 different Apple IDs. I was a paid .Mac user when it was a thing, but I also had a different account to make iTunes purchases back in the day. Currently I need to log in with both in my devices; one of them is used for purchasing in iTunes/App Store, the other one is used for iCloud Photos/iCloud Drive. However you can also make purchases in the Books app (which I use it to sync PDFs), so this always trips me up. There's no way to merge two Apple IDs, and setting up a new device is always an adventure. Knowing when to use which Apple ID can be confusing (don't get me started on 2FA, I'm afraid that having 2 Apple IDs will eventually lead to me getting locked out!).
I liked the concept of Sign in with Apple when I first heard about it, but at this point it might be too confusing (I also never check my "main" Apple ID email).
Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple
#263As they point out at the very bottom, all their arguments apply to all third-party sign-ons, so they're removing Facebook as well. So there's nothing specifically against Apple, despite the title seeming to imply it -- just that they're taking the move right now because of Apple's new policy coming into effect. I've got to say, I really wish there were a way to know whether I already used Facebook, Google, or Apple t…
"all their arguments apply to all third-party sign-ons" No they don't. Other sign-on options don't obfuscate the email address. They are likely removing FB login as otherwise their next app update will be rejected by Apple for supporting third party login but not Apple login.
Also other login providers haven't done massively stupid things like not authenticate the actual email address when issuing tokens... like common who in their right mind would want to adopt a new service with a piss poor security reputation for a critical security sensitive leg of their stack?!
Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah, I wasn't aware that e-mail was used as an addressing system within AnyList. Do users not have any usernames associated with their e-mails? Still, I think in this day and age, having a requirement in your product that says "e-mail that is provided should be the one the user uses the most" is pretty naive. In general, it's true, but when it comes to 3rd party authentication providers like Facebook, Google, and now…
It is rather unusual, honestly. Even Venmo uses just an app-specific name. That's probably a lesson in product design: have your own usernames.
I'd personally for for the method used by Blizzard and Discord where a randomly generated ID is the actual unique value, while the username is just a display setting.
Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple
#265> One problem is that most Apple IDs are tied to an iCloud email address. So most accounts created via Sign in with Apple will use an iCloud email address. But many of those iCloud email addresses are unused and unchecked, because a customer’s “real” email account is their Gmail, Yahoo, or Hotmail account. Wow, this is a really good point. I just checked and yup -- my AppleID is directly linked to my icloud email, an…
This seems strange to me. My iCloud account is my Gmail address (even though I also have an iCloud one on the account) and when I use Sign in with Apple I get an option to redirect all emails to Gmail. But the system is indeed weird, I signed up for an account in an app with bike routes and wanted later to check it in the browser and had no idea what or how to find out what my account is or how should I sign in (coul…
Things may differ from person to person depending on when they created their Apple account(s).
At first, before they had cloud services, you created an Apple account to purchase things from the iTunes store. You could use any email address.
Then they created MobileMe (which was rebranded to .Mac), and that came with an email address @mac.com. (I believe there were a couple of other domains you could choose instead, but don't remember what they were).
That was eventually discontinued, replaced with iCloud, and .Mac accounts were migrated.
Somewhere in all there Apple loosened requirements so that you could use an outside email address as your cloud ID, and made it so a cloud account could could also work as an iTunes account.
For those who created their accounts after that point, it's all sane. Create your Apple account using your outside email address if you want, or using an Apple provided address if you prefer, and then that one account can be used for all your Apple stuff. Buying music, buying or renting video, buying apps, and the cloud stuff.
For those of us who created our accounts before all that, we ended up with an account using our outside address which has our music, video, and app purchases on it, and an account using our @mac.com address that has calendars, photos, and the like.
When they changed it so all Apple accounts could be used for everything, it got even more annoying for us. Whenever we'd see some dialog asking us to sign in to our Apple account, we'd have to guess if it wanted our music/video/app account or our cloud account. If we guessed wrong, we could end up accidentally purchasing apps or media on the cloud account.
Apple does not provide any way to transfer purchases between your accounts, so if you end up with media or app purchases on both accounts there is no way to consolidate other than purchasing duplicates.
If you are willing to do that, or if you have avoided duplicate purchases, you can kind of manually consolidate accounts. You can export calendars, contacts, and the like from your original cloud account, and import them into your original iTunes account. Same for photos, online disk space, and anything else you have on the original cloud account.
Once you've got it all in the original iTunes account, delete everything from the original cloud account, and then just make sure to never again sign into that account. Any time you see the Apple account login dialog, give the original iTunes account.
Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple
#266As they point out at the very bottom, all their arguments apply to all third-party sign-ons, so they're removing Facebook as well. So there's nothing specifically against Apple, despite the title seeming to imply it -- just that they're taking the move right now because of Apple's new policy coming into effect. I've got to say, I really wish there were a way to know whether I already used Facebook, Google, or Apple t…
> So there's nothing specifically against Apple, despite the title seeming to imply it
From the article...
> In addition to these customer experience problems that are common to all third-party login systems, Sign in with Apple introduces several more that are unique to it.
Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
"all their arguments apply to all third-party sign-ons" No they don't. Other sign-on options don't obfuscate the email address. They are likely removing FB login as otherwise their next app update will be rejected by Apple for supporting third party login but not Apple login.
Obfuscation of the email address is an explicit choice by the user when using Sign in with Apple. It’s not something forced by the service. If users are choosing to do that, it says something about the lack of trust the users have with whatever they’re signing up for.
I dunno about that. I literally choose it every time, because why not? It's my default.
Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple
#268As they point out at the very bottom, all their arguments apply to all third-party sign-ons, so they're removing Facebook as well. So there's nothing specifically against Apple, despite the title seeming to imply it -- just that they're taking the move right now because of Apple's new policy coming into effect. I've got to say, I really wish there were a way to know whether I already used Facebook, Google, or Apple t…
Yes! Especially once you start juggling multiple accounts for different companies and projects. Becomes a guessing game, and each wrong guess creates another account magically. Infuriating
And if you create an account accidentally, there’s often no way to undo that.
Next, if you don’t add a second-factor with to it, it becomes a ticking countdown until the account is compromised.
Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's two kinds of "obfuscation" at play with Sign In With Apple. One is true obfuscation - "hide my email". That would be a poor choice for use with any app you hope to have an ongoing relationship with, I'd think. The other is just the use of iCloud email addresses, detailed in the post, which seemed like a very good and concerning point. It's also much less likely to be a problem with FB or Google login.
Your primary iCloud email address is meant to just be your main email address, including non-Apple email addresses.
"Meant to" doesn't mean "is", and even if 99% of people do what they are "meant to", that still leaves millions of people doing it the "wrong" way.
Re: Why we won’t be supporting Sign in with Apple
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
"all their arguments apply to all third-party sign-ons" No they don't. Other sign-on options don't obfuscate the email address. They are likely removing FB login as otherwise their next app update will be rejected by Apple for supporting third party login but not Apple login.
They don't obfuscate the email address you use with them . I don't share my "real" email address with Facebook. My Google account isn't my main account, it's a throwaway I use for things that require email to sign up. This is a general problem for all OAuth IdPs.
> I don't share my "real" email address with Facebook.
Don't worry, they know it anyway.