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Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

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Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#601

Post by zackees »

newacct583 wrote: post #294
ryankemper wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reddit is still very much anti censorship. This is just not true. They are very transparently trying to kick off users/communities that they don't "like". For example basically any subreddit associated with the "alt right", except I believe /r/DebateTheAltRight or whatever it's called. It's very simple: (1) Identify community that you don't like, generally due to association with anti-leftist political views (2) Fi…

> Find an instance of a threat of violence, regardless of context Doesn't the fact that finding instances of violent rhetoric among alt-right posters, regardless of context , sorta make the case that maybe this is an endemic problem and not a purely political suppression? There are a lot of really hateful people among that group, in ways that just aren't true for other politically aligned communities. I mean, the Dir…

Compared to what? BLM is a terrorist hate group. It get's the full support of big tech.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#602

Post by afiori »

Miner49er wrote: post #337
mszkoda wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They banned /r/politics?

/r/politics is a liberal subreddit. It regularly censors leftists and people on right. Don't call something "left" when you mean liberal.

The modern conversation is about tribes not position/ideology. What people are calling left here is an amorphous blob of ever shifting positions. They are neither leftist nor liberal, it is essentially a distributed tribe linked together by shared a language and culture.

Left and liberal are both two very useful words, sadly they do not really describe any of the vocal demographics on social media

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#603

Post by fragmede »

reroute1 wrote: post #304
ve55 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, but it's also a cost for not removing hate, and also just for having a slightly different opinion on what constitutes hate than some of your users. When you have a billion users, there's going to be a lot of them that disagree with you on things.

Yes and reasonable people understand this and don't need censorship. Who would hate a platform for not removing people for just honestly disagreeing and talking? Inciting violence and cheating the system is a different story and the obvious edge of free speech

The problem is "honest disagreement and talking" isn't. One person's honest disagreement is inciting violence, and with coded signals and dogwhistles, it's not a subject that everyone will agree on. Things that are clearly on one side or there other of the line aren't in question. It's more subtle stuff that can be argued either way, eg "When the looting starts, the shooting starts", where it gets more contentious.

Pretending it's all just honest disagreement is being naive.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#604

Post by throwaway894345 »

duxup wrote: post #578
throwaway894345 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point. Other communities are worse than TD and go reprimanded. And it's not just communities like TD; people are canceled, terminated, etc for completely not racist offenses such as "making an OK symbol by accident" or "standing next to a woman who wrongly suggested a minority person was vandalizing a store" or "citing a prominent Black academic's research on nonviolent-vs-violent protests" or "publishing…

Honestly it's hard to figure out what even you're saying. That reads more like a general ideology of persicution you're describing that you think is true ... rather than anything about what I said.

I said that TD was reprimanded for doing things that were at worst on par with other groups. You said “that sounds like TD up until recently”. I said “That’s the point” and went into more detail about my original claim (namely that the double standard targets not only conservatives but all but the most extreme leftists).

As for “ideology of persecution”, that could apply to anyone citing examples of a double standard. At best it begs the question.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#605

Post by mancerayder »

igetspam wrote: post #555
throwaway829 wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to how leftists promoted the "punch a nazi in the face" meme'. They will of course be the ones defining who is a "nazi".

Nazi is pretty well defined, as are incel, redpill, boogaloo bois, etc. If you are part of one of those clubs and decide to exercise your right to free speech (which is your right), suffering the consequences should be expected. Consequences may include social sanctions and violent reactions. People react to speech. That's natural.

Orwell coined the term "doublethink" to describe two contradictory concepts held simultaneously. Something like this:

>Consequences may include social sanctions and violent reactions.

>exercise your right to free speech (which is your right)

Orwell wasn't describing an ideal or inevitable way of thinking, but the result of brainwashing.

Now. When people say that free speech only applies to government restrictions, they're talking strictly in the context of U.S. laws and the First Amendment. Surely we should never consider the possibility that freedom of expression is a concept that predates the United States by centuries and which could possibly live in a grander moral context.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#606

Post by magila »

throwaway829 wrote: post #539
caconym_ wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

T_D was chock full of calls for violence since its early days. In particular, I remember looking one day and seeing its whole front page covered in posts glorifying Pinochet for the way he treated his domestic enemies. The mods quite clearly had no good faith interest in keeping this kind of content out, only stepping in (except to ban users going against the narrative) when they were threatened from above. I am myst…

Similar to how leftists promoted the "punch a nazi in the face" meme'. They will of course be the ones defining who is a "nazi".

The one that scares me a lot more is how many people I've seen promoting another Reign of Terror (e.g. we should bring back the guillotine) with no hint of sarcasm. I can only wonder just how serious they are and if they realize just how unpleasant that period was for the French (not just the rich and powerful).

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#607

Post by Spooky23 »

ant6n wrote: post #345
mantas wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many left-leaning subreddits were banned? There're several toxic commie subs with a lot of hatred thrown around, but nobody seems to care. r/politics was default for ages and it wasn't exactly a welcoming place.

I find it wierd what some Americans consider to be communist. A communist is not somebody who advocates for * equal rights for all people independent of ethnic origin, skin color, gender or religion * public transit * universal access to health care * affordable higher education * affordable housing * or even wealth redistribution via taxes, for example via welfare or a guaranteed minimum income A Communist is somebo…

There are none.

The people throwing around "Communist" in public are conservatives rallying around a mythical memory of the TV version of America circa 1960, before "they" came and ruined everything.

The "they" may be: hippies, liberals, new dealers, big government advocates, black people, women, etc.

Remember the core demographic watching TV and listening to radio is old and getting older. "Communist" evoked "Soviet Union" (aka the main enemy), and that association sticks. The problem is that the demographic that gives a hoot about the Soviets is aging out, so now we're stuck with the next generation, who tends to be more explicitly focused on contemporary grievances.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#609

Post by maceurt »

ipnon wrote: post #394
skrowl wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very sad how many leftist are cheering on the censorship. Forcible silencing of opposing views is a central tenant of actual fascism (not the kind of "fascism" that kids on social media accuse people of just for disagreeing with them). History repeats itself, it would seem. This is a modern day book burning.

Americans have a constitutional guarantee to free speech. They do not have a constitutional guarantee to use Reddit. Does that difference matter here?

It matters in that we should not lobby congress to make reddit unban certain subreddits.

However, that does not mean we should not criticize reddit for not standing up for freedom of speech. You can't make your whole website based around "open and honest discussion" then ban subreddits where open and honest discussion was happening, but in ways you didn't like.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#610

Post by IgorPartola »

rjbwork wrote: post #213
samfriedman wrote: post #159

The title should be updated, as T_D was just one of a large number of subs banned today; even then, it has been largely irrelevant since the admins' earlier decision to quarantine it and impose other restrictions. Other larger banned subs include /r/GenderCritical (anti-Trans) and /r/ConsumeProduct which was ostensibly for criticism of consumerism and product promotion, but hid a large strain of antisemitism below th…

>In my own opinion this was a long time coming, and Reddit has long since shown that the original hands-off model is woefully inadequate in the face of communities that are willing to expend the effort to argue continuously in bad faith, organize to influence and control opinion in other communities, and attack the platform itself in their campaigns for hateful speech. Just ask /r/BlackLadies if you think these users…

Let’s try the opposite argument then: let’s give these fringe groups more prominent placement in the Reddit ecosystem. Surely it’s better to give them more of a voice so we can know what they have to say, than letting them put in the effort to make their voices heard, right? Maybe we should donate money to these groups to help them congregate in one place so we can easier keep an eye on them too.

You don’t sell walkie talkies to Nazis hoping that they will talk themselves out of being Nazis. You take away their voice until the bad idea dies down. Now, if you want to argue that some of these things are good ideas, I am all ears on how you’d want to justify racism, sexism, and xenophobia as valuable to our society. Unless you can successfully do that, your point isn’t valid.

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