Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#301

Post by psychometry » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 6:12 PM UTC

NE2z2T9qi wrote: post #244

psychometry wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between hate speech occasionally being found in a subreddit and a subreddit existing principally as a platform for hate speech. the_donald was unambiguously the latter.

Everytime I saw a news article about the_Donald being an irredeemable den of vitriol and hate--and I actually went to check it out to see if the claims were true--all the top posts were just mildly edgy memes, over-the-top bragging about presidential accomplishments, and some conspiratorial claims which seemed repeated half ironically. Could it be that you're just much more easily offended than other people?

No, it's just that you didn't click through to any of the comments...

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#302

Post by dilandau » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 6:12 PM UTC

rjbwork wrote: post #213

samfriedman wrote: post #159

The title should be updated, as T_D was just one of a large number of subs banned today; even then, it has been largely irrelevant since the admins' earlier decision to quarantine it and impose other restrictions. Other larger banned subs include /r/GenderCritical (anti-Trans) and /r/ConsumeProduct which was ostensibly for criticism of consumerism and product promotion, but hid a large strain of antisemitism below th…

>In my own opinion this was a long time coming, and Reddit has long since shown that the original hands-off model is woefully inadequate in the face of communities that are willing to expend the effort to argue continuously in bad faith, organize to influence and control opinion in other communities, and attack the platform itself in their campaigns for hateful speech. Just ask /r/BlackLadies if you think these users…

I'm not sure why you're getting downvotes, because this is spot-on. Anonymous paper-folding image boards and other places like that are already celebrating the arrival of newcomers. It's like sending a petty offender to prison, and instead of getting reformed, they just get a lot more hardcore.

I get it that Reddit doesn't want extremism on its site, and I don't have an opinion either way on the bans. But I think it's naive to assume that people won't just hop to another, possibly more extreme, platform.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#303

Post by chaostheory » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 6:13 PM UTC

parliament32 wrote: post #9

Whether you agree with the move or not, it's funny how Reddit's stance has changed over time. Under the old ownership, 2012: "At reddit we care deeply about not imposing ours or anyone elses’ opinions on how people use the reddit platform. We are adamant about not limiting the ability to use the reddit platform even when we do not ourselves agree with or condone a specific use. We have very few rules here on reddit;…

Living under this rule would enable reddit to survive and adapt far longer in a democratic republic. This philosophy and the sub-reddits were reddit's strength. If anyone didn't like what reddit currently had, anyone could form their own sub-reddit. That's over. I can't put all the blame on reddit leadership when SESTA and FOSTA exist as laws.

The bad content isn't going to go away. It's just going somewhere else. imo this is the start of a diaspora The only question is where will everyone go?

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#304

Post by reroute1 » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 6:13 PM UTC

ve55 wrote: post #130

matchagaucho wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of people will really really hate you. That's an anticipated cost of removing hate.

It is, but it's also a cost for not removing hate, and also just for having a slightly different opinion on what constitutes hate than some of your users. When you have a billion users, there's going to be a lot of them that disagree with you on things.

Yes and reasonable people understand this and don't need censorship. Who would hate a platform for not removing people for just honestly disagreeing and talking? Inciting violence and cheating the system is a different story and the obvious edge of free speech

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#305

Post by akerro » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 6:13 PM UTC

I see reddit as a platform where everyone can shitpost whatever they want, and where every opinion will face criticisms. Banning right or left wing subreddits will make these people to leave to "safe harbour" where their extreme views won't be banned, but such portals will be pwoered by their extreme views and there will be no criticism or "quality control". Basically, extremists fuelling each other to do harm in real life, because there is no one to tell them "hey, this is too edgy" just like small terrorist groups start.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#306

Post by Rebles » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 6:13 PM UTC

emerged wrote: post #275

Rebles wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

T_D wasn't banned because it was inactive. spez's post says, "All communities on Reddit must abide by our content policy in good faith. We banned r/The_Donald because it has not done so, despite every opportunity." They weren't banned for political ideology, they were banned for doxxing, fear mongering, and generally being a community full of toxic posts. That's the reason it was banned, and good riddance.

That was the reason stated, which is not the same as it being the actual reason. This is the strategy being imposed against conservative voices at large.

This is a strategy imposed against racism and violence. If conservative voices include a lot of racism, then, yes, I guess they should stop being racists.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#307

Post by _1qd4 » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

samfriedman wrote: post #159

The title should be updated, as T_D was just one of a large number of subs banned today; even then, it has been largely irrelevant since the admins' earlier decision to quarantine it and impose other restrictions. Other larger banned subs include /r/GenderCritical (anti-Trans) and /r/ConsumeProduct which was ostensibly for criticism of consumerism and product promotion, but hid a large strain of antisemitism below th…

/r/ConsumeProduct was antisemtic? I never saw that in the posts of theirs that made the front page. It was always memes about over-consumption, they might make fun of disposable make-up wipes for example ("And when you're done, just throw it away!" cue gallery yelling in a robotic voice: CONSUME PRODUCT).

Genuinely curious what the link to antisemitism is. Is the thought that consumerism = big business, and big business = "the jews"?

Edit: I made this comment early in the thread, before others started to weigh in on why this subreddit was banned. I'm willing to engage in a discussion if you reply instead of downvote.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#308

Post by simple_phrases » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

newacct583 wrote: post #267

ryankemper wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm also not sure how much The_Donald was as a community. It was very clearly a real community, as you can see evidence from the fact that they migrated to thedonald.win when Reddit made it clear that they wouldn't be treated fairly. > So you'd be in your other community and one day they all show up and down votes and the vitriol begins... it was no mystery that this happened, it was spoken of openly in The_Donald…

> And yet Reddit happily ignores vote brigading and other negative externalities from any subreddit that toes their party line Which subreddits do you think they should have banned, specifically? What is the "party line", exactly, that these subreddits "toed" to get themselves out of enforcement? Look, I mean obviously Reddit's moderation isn't always going to be fair. Moderation never is. It can't be. Nonetheless T_…

People that think there is some "party line" at Reddit should look into the founders' political views.

To put it in perspective, spez is a right-wing libertarian who fought to keep r/Jailbait alive because it was the most visited subreddit at the time, despite it being a subreddit for posting suggestive pictures of minors.

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#309

Post by BoorishBears » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

parliament32 wrote: post #161

BoorishBears wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Donald would have been deleted under the old leadership too... They got in hot water not for supporting Trump (there are plenty of pro-Trump subreddits) but actively breaking the most basic rules of Reddit, maybe you should actually look at their history. Spamming the same images to the subreddit, interfering with other subreddits, trying to out whistleblowers in federal cases, gaming the content discovery system…

It was initially quarantined for "threats of violence against police", but they seem to have changed their narrative since, you know, everyone else started doing it: https://i.redd.it/s2pdnningy451.png

Already said it in another comment:

Are we going to pretend everything in that history section is wrong and they were only quarantined for anti-police comments?

There are literally dozens of crisis that the subreddit spawned, literally any of which would have been explained it. The fact we can actually go back on forth on which one of the many many many straws broke the camels back says it all.

You also seem to want to go so far as to imply the only reason other subreddit get away with anti-police sentiment is some kind of hypocritical favortism?

Re: Reddit shuts down subreddits including r/The_Donald and r/ChapoTrapHouse

#310

Post by fzeroracer » Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 6:15 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #56

arcticbull wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both sides have free speech rights and both have outcomes that support that speech... "Free speech rights" don't apply between two private entities, only between the government and a private entity.

You are conflating The First Amendment (a law) with Freedom of Speech (a principle). FoS is something we should support in any context because the only speech worth hearing is the stuff you don't like hearing.

This seems rather ironic, since TD was banning people that went against the majority opinion.

If TD is repeatedly violating freedom of speech principles what exactly is your recourse to ensure they comply and adhere to freedom of speech? If we accept that TD has the right to ban users it doesn't like, then we accept that Reddit has the right to ban subreddits it doesn't like.