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Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

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Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#251

Post by commandlinefan »

chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

> I don't think CS is a high social status field at all.

This really struck home for me about 15 or so years ago. I was a "principal architect" at Travelocity, which meant that I was involved in driving the most complex technical decisions of the site. I felt like I was really doing well for myself - it was the top of the "tech track" there. One day, corporate asked people who had graduated from a set of local universities to speak to graduates of those universities - since I had graduated from one, I told them I'd be interested. The woman I talked to actually seemed shocked and said (no exaggeration), "Oh, I'm sorry, I should have been more clear, we were looking for people further along in their careers".

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#252

Post by ardit33 »

burntoutfire wrote: post #82
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

I dunno, the news of exorbitant salaries of SV programmers slowly make it into the mainstream media and those jobs are sometimes mentioned next to other traditionally highly desirable career choices, such as a doctor or a lawyer. Given how much America equates human worth with money, it should translate into increase in social status. Another take: CS is in no small part just an obscure field of mathematics with only…

Make no mistake... just as e-sports starting getting female 'fans' as soon as more $$ was involved into it.... but make no mistake, those women still think the guys involved in it are low status dorks.... they think the same about male engineers.....

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#253

Post by PeterisP »

roosterdawn wrote: post #197
chrisseaton wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone with money can have clout. Are computer scientists invited into the club before they have money? No. Do they get offered the opportunities that money doesn't buy? No. That's the difference.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply! I think that clarifies your viewpoint considerably. If you don't mind me asking, could you elaborate on the kinds of opportunities that money doesn't buy? And furthermore, to what extent have you seen vocation give access to that which is not given by heredity or caste? I think that would help elucidate the subtle distinction between high clout and high social status.

Legal profession - a senior judge or attorney will have social status and influence far beyond one simply granted by their wealth. University professors likewise. Doctors, especially the kind that work on diseases typical for wealthy old men; they will have status, social connections and influence beyond their profession. Politicians - town mayors generally aren't rich, but have influence and social status.

In essence, it's about the professions that work closely with other people. If you're high-ranking in a profession that provides an personal service that matters to socially important people, you'll have influence. Does your profession bring you into personal contacts with important people, where they are motivated (or forced) to rely on your specific personal competence? That will buy you their respect.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#254

Post by thu2111 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #211
logicchains wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we don't get fancy titles Some people get titles like "code ninja", although I suppose "fancy" isn't really the right word for that.

Yes we make ourselves look like clowns rather than professionals. It's terrible I don't know why we're doing this to ourselves.

Titles like that are hardly common though. I never encountered anyone who called themselves a "code ninja" at the FAANG I worked at. That term seems to be a kind of recruiter stereotype/cliche rather than one professionals actually use.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#255

Post by sumedh »

lollipoplol wrote: post #186
na85 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They are more socially aware than we are. Is there any evidence that women are more likely to choose careers with high social prestige? I find this doubtful, since in North America at least the traditionally female-dominated job sectors seem to be the ones with lower social prestige. Compare the prestige of a nurse with a cardiac surgeon: which is more stereotypically male?

This also isn't true in places other than North America. In countries like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, there is way more gender parity in IT than in the USA.

In India its not, lot more males compared to females.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#257

Post by alexashka »

battertenr wrote: post #47

The reason is because it is a terrible job. Unlikely 90% of other jobs, you have to mentally burn your brain out each day, constantly learn new things, and focus intensely, supposedly for 8 hours. The reward is nothing, not even good pay outside of a couple of tech giants in the USA. If you compare it to a trade, there is a night and day difference to your mental health. The wage data in this article is meaningless b…

While the points you make are valid, they have nothing to do with why people who don't know what the field is like, choose a different field such as engineering, which is a disaster in its own ways (good luck finding a job).

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#258

Post by burntoutfire »

corpMaverick wrote: post #169
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

> I don't think CS is a high social status field at all. I totally agree with you. I believe this is one of the factors why women hesitate to enter the field. They are more socially aware than we are. Also, even in IT areas, technical capable people are relegated. We get good salaries but we don't get fancy titles. We are the only profession that allows to be managed by outsiders. Financial firms(and finance departme…

Manufacturing firms (e.g. auto manufacturers) are very often managed by outsiders.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#259

Post by racl101 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

So true.

Most people equate Computer Science major to code monkey / grunt. And, to be fair, in many places, that may not be far from the truth. Many CS graduates are simply working on building CRUD web apps.

And, even worse, sometimes you got the people who think a CS degree means you're a technician / computer repair person and that you can and will help them with their computer issues for free. sigh

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#260

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

chrisseaton wrote: post #238
roosterdawn wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply! I think that clarifies your viewpoint considerably. If you don't mind me asking, could you elaborate on the kinds of opportunities that money doesn't buy? And furthermore, to what extent have you seen vocation give access to that which is not given by heredity or caste? I think that would help elucidate the subtle distinction between high clout and high social status.

For example... I have a friend who is a barrister in London. He makes a lot less money than I do, and works a lot longer hours, so sounds like he has the lower status job, right? No, because he's getting invited to join elite private social clubs and organisations. He's going to dinner parties with politicians and could use that network to start a political career if he wanted. He's meeting people with capital to inv…

Why would I want to hang out with vapid, shallow people?
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