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Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

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Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#241

Post by thaumasiotes »

rjsw wrote: post #226
thaumasiotes wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I decided to work in Computing when I was 10 and would like to think that I'm quite good at it, but felt that I'm not good enough at doing essay style exams to be able to pass a CS degree. This doesn't make much sense; you'd be taking math exams, not writing essays. Source: I have a CS degree.

I chose to do more maths courses to avoid having to write essays. Source: I failed a CS degree.

The number of essays required for a CS degree is zero. If you think otherwise, all I can really say is "you're doing it wrong".

Graduating from college usually requires some essays, but there are easy workarounds for that.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#242

Post by umvi »

niknetniko wrote: post #198
umvi wrote: post #160

Personally I think something like Electrical Engineering is more valuable. At my company EE folks are often competent in both hardware and software, but the CS folks are completely incompetent at hardware and don't even understand basic GPIO usage.

A lot of EE folks I've met _think_ they are competent in software, but I'd beg to differ. Similarly, I've met plenty of CS majors who know their way round hardware.

Depends on definition of "software competency". Lofty functional programming in Haskell is quite different from low level driver programming in C. I doubt you could take a world class Haskell programmer and throw them in linux usb driver land and expect them to perform well.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#243

Post by knudsen80 »

Great article. I majored in Electrical and Computer Engineering roughly 20 years ago at a top US university. Even then, my classes were probably 2/3 international students. I fear that the recent rhetoric from the White House (shutting down H-1B visas) and general impact of Covid on globalism is going to make this problem in many countries like the US. Just as the legal and medical fields got saturated in the 80s and 90s and the preferred career track for high pay and job security, I predict that the same will happen with computer science in the near future. I think most future innovation will come from fields like biology.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#244

Post by gedy »

radford-neal wrote: post #204
gedy wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "There remains the possibility that a toxic culture in high school has prevented some students from realizing that they are interested in computers" I take some issue if the characterization is "the nerds" are the toxic ones here. It's been a while, but the high school culture was overall toxic if you were not attractive and popular, and computer geek types were frequently targets for their interests. Young women w…

I didn't mean to imply that the "nerds", or any of the students, were "toxic". It's the culture. Probably starting with the whole concept of segregating teenagers from the rest of society.

Thanks, agreed

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#245

Post by burntoutfire »

plutonorm wrote: post #235
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

Yup, this is my biggest problem with the field. 15 years in the industry and I've never seen anyone promoted out of IT. Your only escape is a being a founder of a startup. We are not included in conversations that matter. Our opinions are discarded. We are simply dispensable cogs in the machine, its equivalent to data entry work. No status, no opinion worth listening to. I did comp sci because my dad said it was a go…

I've seen plenty of coders promoted into management. Of course, it takes time - first they have to prove themselves in some tech lead or product owner role and later, if they seem capable, they can go higher. Come to this about it, two out of three of my current bosses (incl. a guy who has hundreds of people under him) are ex-coders.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#246

Post by neutronicus »

_xnmw wrote: post #165
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

I found this out the hard way (that the social status of computer scientists outside of the Valley is nearly zero) in my late twenties, when I was starting to look to get married. I'm now changing careers. I realized that women (and society in general) cared absolutely zero about my profession except for the fact that it made good money. Even if you do become obscenely wealthy, you rarely garner any real respect in m…

Programmers have a bad reputation with Feminists. Hanging out in any online Feminist space is very illuminating - they have gone on many dates with people who do what we do, and they're contemptuously familiar with "us" as a class. If you're trying to date in a tech city, I think you pretty much have to do this - there are a lot of "tech bro" memes out there for you to step in on the first date.

This prejudice seems largely absent from health-care workers, for what it's worth.

(Nurses and nurse-adjacent professionals seem to think of doctors as much bigger jerks and sexists than programmers, whereas I think a lot of creative professionals now view programmers and various kinds of scientist / engineer as pretty much the ur-sexist-jerk).

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#247

Post by the-dude »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #137
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

It's not zero status because most people understand IT work makes good money, and in this capitalist society money means better access and privileges. So, I do think people making 300k a year in SV have a great status.

We would call these 'new riches' and they are known for having money, but no class.

Not sure if this translates well ( not a native speaker ).

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#248

Post by person_of_color »

_xnmw wrote: post #165
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

I found this out the hard way (that the social status of computer scientists outside of the Valley is nearly zero) in my late twenties, when I was starting to look to get married. I'm now changing careers. I realized that women (and society in general) cared absolutely zero about my profession except for the fact that it made good money. Even if you do become obscenely wealthy, you rarely garner any real respect in m…

What are you going to pivot to?

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#249

Post by PeterStuer »

CS is seen as leading up to a blue collar job executed behind a desk that requires a particular kind of mental aptitude and dedication.

It comes with low intrinsic social status and even stigma attached.

The skill set and personal characteristics that it thrives on are nearly opposite of those that do well in corporate or societal careering.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#250

Post by ipnon »

kqr wrote: post #27

Personal opinion: after four of the required five years of my CS major education, I felt like I had gotten about as much out of it as I ever would. I knew I would advance my own skills and knowledge more by spending that last year as part of an experienced team in the industry instead, so I did. Other than it being annoying to explain the situation if someone asks, this has not ever set me back in any way I know of.…

Computer science has little to say about software engineering, I've found. There is not much high quality research on the subject, because it's more of a social science and it's inaccessible as a field of study to normal social scientists.
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