Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

danwang.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 452 posts

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#231

Post by corpMaverick »

tosser0001 wrote: post #72

The problem is CS is just a miserable field to be in unless you really, really enjoy the grind of it. To me it comes down to some CS-specific version of Mike Tyson's (perhaps apocryphal) quote "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - something along the lines of "Everyone has fun programming until they have to start debugging". My city has several years of programming courses at the high school. A…

You bring a great point that I think needs to be discussed further.

Every year I spend more time banging my head and I think it is having serious effect on my mental health.

I enjoy programming and I don't really spend a lot of time debugging. My code usually runs fine, or I am able to easily find out what is wrong.

It is the whole combined complexity of all the tools that we use. Git, Java, maven, gradle, jenkins, Oauth2, aws(ec2, s3, opsworks, cloudwatch, iam, secrets manager, etc), prometheus, elk, splunk, etc.,etc. plus the combination of all the repositories, branches, modules, versions, libraries that we use.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#232

Post by thegeomaster »

saiya-jin wrote: post #221
chrisseaton wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we make ourselves look like clowns rather than professionals. It's terrible I don't know why we're doing this to ourselves.

Immature is the word that comes to my mind. And yes, that generally doesn't produce much respect (or attraction from other sex), does it

Right, a lot of FAANG companies' offices look like kindergartens. I get that all of the perks are "cool" to someone, but to me it's just embarrassing.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#233

Post by easterncalculus »

swiley wrote: post #157
easterncalculus wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of this is the limitations of interest that come from a film. You can write a whole movie about an electrical engineer building robots and visually show the struggles along the way. If you compare that to a software engineer searching for another fucking memory leak or something then it's just not going to be as visually interesting. An interesting thing about this is that I think it's easier to show in…

Valgeind and vim are both pretty neat looking IMO. Showing the real tools occasionally is something I’ve enjoyed seeing in some recent Sci-Fi movies. Tron Legacy and Chappie are both examples and even though the end result was unrealistic I thought they did a neat job showing the engineer working for years tediously on the project.

Tron did do a decent job, it was cool to see that. At least having a basis in reality goes a long way to making the the 'fi' part believable, if only for those that recognize the basis in current or previous technology.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#234

Post by jjcon »

roosterdawn wrote: post #130
chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

I'm not sure I agree. Either you are conflating vocation, field of academic study, political power, socioeconomic class and status, or things are just different in the UK. Here in the US, you rarely study computer science to become a computer scientist but rather to be a highly paid engineer or eventually obscenely wealthy founder. The same is true for philosophers, authors, politicians and composers; increasingly, t…

> In the US, notably, the field you actually study increasingly seems to have little to do with what you do later on in life

Not sure that this is US specific, I think this has more to do with people studying things the economy doesn’t really have a need for (which while inefficient is fine by me)

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#235

Post by plutonorm »

chrisseaton wrote: post #4

I don't think CS is a high social status field at all . You're deluding yourselves. Outside of our peers also in the industry nobody cares that you're a staff engineer at Google. Absolutely nobody. They'll assume you're doing IT work like the characters in the IT Crowd if they even bother to think about it at all and haven't already walked away. Here's a concrete example to make it really obvious. How many computer s…

Yup, this is my biggest problem with the field. 15 years in the industry and I've never seen anyone promoted out of IT. Your only escape is a being a founder of a startup. We are not included in conversations that matter. Our opinions are discarded. We are simply dispensable cogs in the machine, its equivalent to data entry work. No status, no opinion worth listening to. I did comp sci because my dad said it was a good idea. I hate programming it's the most boring mentally draining thing imaginable. I hate hate hate it. If anyone had told me compsci was a dead end, if they had told me it wasn't like maths or physics that don't pigeon hole you, I would have never done it. Doing compsci limits your options utterly. If you do compsci you are a programmer for life unless you are very very lucky. Or burn out so hard you have to go on benefits. Which I'm pretty close to doing right now. Programming is like pulling teeth now and I think I'm close to rather being dead than continuing to work in this field.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#236

Post by crakenzak »

User23 wrote: post #220
corpMaverick wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think CS is a high social status field at all. I totally agree with you. I believe this is one of the factors why women hesitate to enter the field. They are more socially aware than we are. Also, even in IT areas, technical capable people are relegated. We get good salaries but we don't get fancy titles. We are the only profession that allows to be managed by outsiders. Financial firms(and finance departme…

> I believe this is one of the factors why women hesitate to enter the field You're right of course, but I'm going to spell out more clearly what you're saying for those of us here who don't get it. Women avoid computing science because it's populated by low status men and women are repulsed by low status men. Women in tech are either low status themselves, quickly move up into management, or exit the field. Don't ha…

what the fuck did I just read hahahaaha

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#237

Post by ipnon »

HanP77 wrote: post #161
tosser0001 wrote: post #72

The problem is CS is just a miserable field to be in unless you really, really enjoy the grind of it. To me it comes down to some CS-specific version of Mike Tyson's (perhaps apocryphal) quote "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - something along the lines of "Everyone has fun programming until they have to start debugging". My city has several years of programming courses at the high school. A…

This I've been working has a web developer for two years after completing a bootcamp. Peoples often ask me questions because they think about doing the same. I always say to them that this is not for everbody, you are banging your head against the wall most of the time. Off course nothing beat that sensation when you finally found the problem or even when you get closer. But that has to be your thing.

Skateboarding is similar. The people who get that rush after landing a trick for the first time will invariably spend the next few years doing nothing but skating. The people who don't will reasonably wonder why anyone would waste their time riding around on a stupid wooden toy.

It's a simple formula: if the gain is more than the pain, your life is changed.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#238

Post by chrisseaton »

roosterdawn wrote: post #197
chrisseaton wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone with money can have clout. Are computer scientists invited into the club before they have money? No. Do they get offered the opportunities that money doesn't buy? No. That's the difference.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply! I think that clarifies your viewpoint considerably. If you don't mind me asking, could you elaborate on the kinds of opportunities that money doesn't buy? And furthermore, to what extent have you seen vocation give access to that which is not given by heredity or caste? I think that would help elucidate the subtle distinction between high clout and high social status.

For example... I have a friend who is a barrister in London. He makes a lot less money than I do, and works a lot longer hours, so sounds like he has the lower status job, right?

No, because he's getting invited to join elite private social clubs and organisations. He's going to dinner parties with politicians and could use that network to start a political career if he wanted. He's meeting people with capital to invest. He's on the sports team with influential people. Etc.

There's a whole real-life social network out there, and they definitely aren't inviting the programmers.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#239

Post by deeg »

cs702 wrote: post #83
deeg wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My niece had almost the exact same opinion despite having multiple family members who didn't fit that description, including her mother! It wasn't until I introduced her to some of my younger female co-workers that she committed to being a CS major. She's now a third generation software engineer, which has to be fairly unique.

That is unusual indeed! The question for which I don't have a good answer is, why did your niece have the same opinion despite so much firsthand evidence to the contrary?

I've talked to her about it and she can't really articulate why. I'm closer to the nerd stereotype in that I'm on the computer a lot but her mother (my sister) definitely is not. I think it's mostly pop and teen culture still harboring the antisocial stigma. I'll have to talk to her some more.

There is probably some connection with video games, in that boys overwhelmingly play games where girls do not. I don't think the games cause the disparity; whatever it is that draws boys to VGs is what draws them to CS as well.

Re: Why do so few people major in computer science? (2017)

#240

Post by ipnon »

tosser0001 wrote: post #72

The problem is CS is just a miserable field to be in unless you really, really enjoy the grind of it. To me it comes down to some CS-specific version of Mike Tyson's (perhaps apocryphal) quote "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth" - something along the lines of "Everyone has fun programming until they have to start debugging". My city has several years of programming courses at the high school. A…

You have to be a little crazy to want to spend your life trying to get these damned things to work.
Post reply on HN