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Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

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Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#221
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that horribly patronizing? I'd feel offended if someone treated me with kid gloves based on my skin color.

It's only patronizing if it results in preferential treatment. But I think the experts who work on these programs have found that it is necessary to "over-correct" in order to override unconscious bias. Obviously, if it is coming across as patronizing, then you are doing it wrong. The point is to try to get to a happy medium. Like shooting for the stars in hopes of getting to the moon.

Exactly. Inevitably some of my co-workers brought up the "points" in this thread too, that it feels patronizing & unfair.

I'm not suggesting anyone be patronizing. I'm simply saying you should be aware of the fact a co-worker might be feeling a certain way, and then notice & speak up if you see, for example, their idea(s) being misattributed to others.

The idea that being an ally would be patronizing is comparable to people responding to "black lives matter" with "all lives matter". Yes, all lives should matter, but all lives don't matter until black lives matter. If you work somewhere where white people are being systemically held back, you should speak up there as well, but I doubt that is the case.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also despise the current state of public discourse for the very reason that stating that at the beginning of their post is necessary. It's impossible for us to know if the poster of the original point is posting in good faith or not (such is the nature of the internet). By noting that it is a common alt-right strawman, and engaging with it anyway, it can help readers understand the meta of discourse that leads many…

I really didn't mean for my feelings to be germane in the point I raised. The point I was trying to make - which I feel is being deliberately ignored - is that seeing my fellow humans as 'negros' weakens the project of making a 'human' tribe which doesn't care about race. I'm not surprised the alt-right raises the same point, but I'd guess it's only raised to point out the hypocrisy. The alt-right is perfectly fine w…

> What does it matter whether I'm one of the 49% who are making that argument in good faith?

Because my time and energy is scarce, and so are other peoples. Why should I oblige someone who is arguing in bad faith the time and energy to deconstruct their argument and build it back up to the level of discourse required to talk about these issues, when they will just continually drain me of whatever reserves I have. That's the point of a bad faith argument; to mask as a legit one in order to drain the opposition.

> Do you want more racial division or do you want more human unity?

I don't think that's even the topic of question. Racial division or unity is not at stake; it's justice and equality. Framing it to be about "unity" is an approach that experience has shown people who have paid attention to racial equality & justice over the last 30 years as _not_ working.

> how could my keeping your race constantly in mind do anything but delay your getting what you want?

Keeping in mind a person's experience as you interact with them is paramount for empathy. For a large portion of people in America, their race is inexorably tied to their experience. You're not being asked to think, "Oh this person is Black, I need to act like X & Y & not Z because the SJW police told me to." You're being asked to think, "Oh this person is Black, I need to understand their experience so I know how to act around them so that they feel safe."

Some people find it helpful to boil these down to rules of thumb, but these are simply tools to help people who are new to empathizing with the experiences of POC to not fuck up as much. Take them at your leisure based on your perceived level of understanding.

Lastly, I'll leave you with a few questions to ponder & research if you feel like it's valuable:

How does a society repair the subtle mechanisms within it that perpetuate racial injustice and inequality?

How does a society acknowledge and celebrate cultures that are different from the majority (as in, without erasing them or forcing them to adopt white culture)?

How does a society enact justice for the communities who have been terrorized and brutalized due to racism perpetrated through people, policy, and the power structure in all areas of the country?

To me, "ignoring race" does not come close to getting to the root of these questions. It is extremely palatable because it requires no work on my part, but experience shows it does not actually bear fruit.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#225
post #103

All of these comments and I’m left wondering if I’m the only black person commenting in this thread. I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color. I keep moving on but y’all it’s been 20 years of this. And it just started getting a little better in the past 3 years but is a total gamble based on where you work. In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved…

Did you always work in large corporates or have you experienced the same biases in smaller companies too?

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#226
post #210
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry you were patronized. Nobody likes being patronized. You may have learned to cope but not all coping is equal and not everyone can. Again, the argument isn't for baby talk. It's for adult strategies for adult issues. Be it ensuring that a woman can have her voice heard in a meeting or an autistic employee can have a desk in a non-busy part of the office. Non-patronizing, reasonable, and aware methods to impr…

This is kind of what I'm getting at, though. You've just made the assumption I'm hypersensive to noise, and while that does sometimes bother me, the thing that causes me sensory overload is heat. I can solve this fairly easily because I have a reasonably quiet desk fan that doesn't take a lot of space and can be powered off of USB if needed. Please don't fight for me over things I can solve myself. What I do struggle…

That's good then. If I pretended you were homogeneous with me (ignored color, the root of this thread), I'd not have had this conversation and learned that sensory overload can be caused by heat. This is exactly the sort of thing I want to happen throughout offices across America.

Life is a mess hence why I don't think we should pretend otherwise. You don't want help, cool! Some do. I've been told this explicitly. If I act on a general rule of thumb of keeping the dialogue open, that would mean people like you can say "no thanks, I don't need help," and that's that.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#227
post #140
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there something about European or Asian or American history that would make it reasonable to assume that racism was not factor shaping societies? Europe had pogroms before it had WWII. United States were racially legally segregated long after WWII. The Asian history does not lack racism either.

Why did you not mention African history? In this respect, it's certainly not less "racist" than any other continent's history. If you by racism means tribal or national sentiment to live together with others from the same tribe or nation. Then yes, what you call "racism" shaped it everywhere. I would hesitate to call it racism however, as it seems to be a universal human trait.

No, by racism I meant specifically racial issues, not just etnical ones and not just national ones.

In United States, it would be cleansing of land from natives and rhetoric around it. It would be rhetoric of slavery and later Jim crow and so on. In Europe it would be very eacial ideology of Nazi and previously pogroms and relationships against Jews. In Africa, I am pretty sure colonial history applies. In Asia, check out Rwanda for genocide or Japan for general racism.

I missed Africa, because I never really read much about any part of their history, unlike Europe, United States and Rwanda. Not sure why that would be issue.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#228
post #103

All of these comments and I’m left wondering if I’m the only black person commenting in this thread. I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color. I keep moving on but y’all it’s been 20 years of this. And it just started getting a little better in the past 3 years but is a total gamble based on where you work. In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved…

> In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved to a new team where my expertise didn’t even matter. Every issue that came up that I had qualifications for I was passed over for a lesser skilled White man How many times do you think this happens to white people? It’s incredibly common. I keep a “to poach” list of developers who aren’t being given the respect, challenge, title, pay etc tha…

Ok, but what's your point in bringing that up here? Both statements can easily be true.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#229
post #103

All of these comments and I’m left wondering if I’m the only black person commenting in this thread. I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color. I keep moving on but y’all it’s been 20 years of this. And it just started getting a little better in the past 3 years but is a total gamble based on where you work. In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved…

> I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color "solely". It's easy to pin point a problem on others. This might come in handy - https://twitter.com/shreyas/status/1276956836856393728?s=20

It's also easy to be dismissive on the internet. Please don't do that here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#230
post #103

All of these comments and I’m left wondering if I’m the only black person commenting in this thread. I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color. I keep moving on but y’all it’s been 20 years of this. And it just started getting a little better in the past 3 years but is a total gamble based on where you work. In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved…

> I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color.

But... But how do you know that's the color thing? It could be nepotism, management incompetence or any other reason.

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