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Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#131

Post by iateanapple »

o-__-o wrote: post #103

All of these comments and I’m left wondering if I’m the only black person commenting in this thread. I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color. I keep moving on but y’all it’s been 20 years of this. And it just started getting a little better in the past 3 years but is a total gamble based on where you work. In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved…

> In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved to a new team where my expertise didn’t even matter. Every issue that came up that I had qualifications for I was passed over for a lesser skilled White man

How many times do you think this happens to white people? It’s incredibly common.

I keep a “to poach” list of developers who aren’t being given the respect, challenge, title, pay etc that they deserve and at this point it’s close to 20% of the developers Ive worked with.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#133

Post by komali2 »

numpad0 wrote: post #101
komali2 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

POC means people of color means non white. You taking the anthropologic perspective isn't scientifically incorrect - race doesn't actually exist, after all, in any meaningful way. However it is sociologically incorrect to call white people "colored."

BLM has been creeping towards Asia where I am, and some of those activists are absurdly trying to redefine some Asian views of aesthetics as White admirations that the noble White must responsibly educate to eliminate. To me these ungrounded imaginations are clearly stemming from the idea that some people are objectively not colored and others are colored. I’ve never come across this “POC” term but if it’s not racist…

Lol. The classic "no YOU'RE racist for pointing out race exists!"

Deny that black Americans are terrorized by cops. Pretend that people of color is a non concept all you want. It won't change reality.

You are aiding a racist status quo when you fight against ally causes like BLM.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#134

Post by komali2 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #108
komali2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assume that the unconscious biases are less powerful than the conscious ones, which may not be true (I don't believe it is). A personal example - I "treated everyone equally" for a long time, and then I was brought to be aware of the "don't ignore color" perspective. I started paying active attention and realized I was talking over women in meetings regularly. Crazy regularly. I had no idea. And then I noticed th…

I think your intent is great. But I do think it would be better to keep the outward response as neutral as possible, so you don't unintentially single someone out in your attempt to be inclusive. For example, make a conscious decision to say "hold on, I think {so-and-so} had something to add" when you see that situation with anyone, even if they happen to be a white man (because just being a white male doesn't mean t…

Sure. But what we're talking about here is how "not seeing color" hurts more than it "helps."

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#135

Post by xfitm3 »

bJGVygG7MQVF8c wrote: post #102
octaveguin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that horribly patronizing? I'd feel offended if someone treated me with kid gloves based on my skin color.

Answering for myself / at the level of the individual: yes. I don't want to work with white colleagues who are biased against non-white people. I have been in this situation at a very small startup. I wasn't the only person to notice or complain about it, so I know it wasn't "in my head". So I left. But I also don't want to work someplace where white colleagues are overcorrecting for deep-seated cultural biases. Idea…

> I don't want to work with white colleagues who are biased against non-white people.

I don't want to work with people who are biased against white people. I support equality and I genuinely want to see people treated fairly but I can't help but take offense to the notion that because I'm white I am less or should feel guilty.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#136

Post by lilactown »

dafoex wrote: post #74
rootusrootus wrote: post #12

This seems like such a hard problem to really solve, since so much of what we consider racism, or at least borderline racism, has a significant basis in fundamental human thinking. I really feel for the guy, but it's hard to know where to start. I try really hard to ignore color, but I'm not immune to at least noticing . Then I try hard not to double-take. It's completely expected to meet Indians at the workplace, bu…

For the longest time I felt like I didn't notice race: yeah, if I looked it was there, and the town I grew up in and live in is pretty multicultural, so it wasn't a novel thing to see people of different colours. Sadly, as I've become more aware of the bitter division of race present in some people, I feel that I've not only become acutely aware of the races around me as if its something strange and unexpected, but I…

You're just dealing with a social problem that you haven't as much experience with. As you grow to better understand the interpersonal dynamics between you and other people w.r.t. race it'll be the same as learning how best to communicate with old, or disabled, or femme, or masculine people without offending them.

It's not hard, just new. You're not crazy, just inexperienced. All we should do is keep trying to get better at it.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#137

Post by jjeaff »

octaveguin wrote: post #33
joshribakoff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I try really hard to ignore color One thing I was taught in anti-bias trainings at big tech companies was that trying to "ignore" color helps perpetuate biases. It is important that if an under represented co-worker speaks up, you pay extra attention, explicitly ensure their idea is credited to them, be vocal when you agree even if you otherwise would not, help others to understand their contributions, etc. Biases…

Isn't that horribly patronizing? I'd feel offended if someone treated me with kid gloves based on my skin color.

It's only patronizing if it results in preferential treatment. But I think the experts who work on these programs have found that it is necessary to "over-correct" in order to override unconscious bias.

Obviously, if it is coming across as patronizing, then you are doing it wrong. The point is to try to get to a happy medium. Like shooting for the stars in hopes of getting to the moon.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#138

Post by komali2 »

oa335 wrote: post #105
o-__-o wrote: post #103

All of these comments and I’m left wondering if I’m the only black person commenting in this thread. I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color. I keep moving on but y’all it’s been 20 years of this. And it just started getting a little better in the past 3 years but is a total gamble based on where you work. In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved…

Thanks for your comment. I'm not blakc, but I agree that reading some of these comments is quite depressing and proves that we have a long way to go on race issues in tech.

I'm frustrated that my comments promoting allyship are being downvoted to oblivion elsewhere in the thread. How can people be reading these experiences and not grasp the truth of this reality? I have people claiming that POC is a non-existent concept. It's madness.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#139

Post by forgot_user1234 »

o-__-o wrote: post #103

All of these comments and I’m left wondering if I’m the only black person commenting in this thread. I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color. I keep moving on but y’all it’s been 20 years of this. And it just started getting a little better in the past 3 years but is a total gamble based on where you work. In my current Fortune 500 job, I was hired for my expertise then was moved…

> I’ve been passed up for promotions, fired, and hired based solely on my color

"solely". It's easy to pin point a problem on others.

This might come in handy - https://twitter.com/shreyas/status/1276956836856393728?s=20

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#140

Post by zosima »

watwut wrote: post #66
zosima wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So all of these groups choose to live in separate neighborhoods, because they all are racist to each other? Not because they want to be around people that are similar to themselves? And the fact that the same pattern shows up basically everywhere. In Africa, Asia, Europe, North America and to some extent South America, does not change your perception?

Is there something about European or Asian or American history that would make it reasonable to assume that racism was not factor shaping societies? Europe had pogroms before it had WWII. United States were racially legally segregated long after WWII. The Asian history does not lack racism either.

Why did you not mention African history?

In this respect, it's certainly not less "racist" than any other continent's history.

If you by racism means tribal or national sentiment to live together with others from the same tribe or nation. Then yes, what you call "racism" shaped it everywhere. I would hesitate to call it racism however, as it seems to be a universal human trait.

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