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Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

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Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#481

Post by concordDance »

IgorPartola wrote: post #320
jimbob45 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve got to give people a space to consider both sides of every argument. Better to cordone off that space than have that discussion elsewhere. If you tell someone NEVER GO INTO THE LAST DOOR ON THE THIRD STORY, they’ll endlessly wonder what’s inside. If you show them that it’s your amateur paintings, they’ll never care again.

I don’t need to have a discussion with a guy who beats his wife because he never got help for his PTSD to know it’s wrong. Giving it a platform treats it like a point of view and not a gross fucking crime. I don’t need to talk to a Nazi to know that gassing Jews and gays is wrong. People seem to think that there are some unexplored ideas here that merit further discussion. We have already established that this shit i…

> We have already established that this shit is not what we want.

Ah, yes. "We were wrong about morality all those other times throughout history but THIS time we're right! Forever and ever!"

Also, the things being banned are nowhere as far outside the Overton Window as your strawmen.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#482

Post by esperent »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #460
Afforess wrote: post #24

How is lemmy going to avoid the fate of the last reddit alternative (voat)? Voat attracted the communities banned from reddit, e.g the worst of the worst: jailbait, creepshots, beatingwomen, etc. The users most interested in an alternative to reddit are on average, the exact wrong type of user to help with the growth of a healthy community. I don't see any information on how being "federated" solves the hard problem…

Their first rule would block most of that and seems to make it pretty clear they don’t want to host those communities: > No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, or xenophobia. Code of Conduct. Code of conduct links to https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUC... Their rules are a lot stricter than Reddit’s. I’m not sure how that in practice works with it being federated, but ass…

They lump porn (presumably also artistic nudity) along with hate speech, racism and so on as banned discourse. You're not even allowed to have a sexual alias.

This is not necessarily a bad thing for users - I often wish for a place similar to hacker news but with a wider range of topics - however, it almost certainly means they will never reach Reddit levels of popularity.

I do think that Reddit fills an important niche - a place where any topic is open for discussion, including porn and other forbidden topics like drugs. It's just unfortunate that the company currently ruling this niche is so morally bereft that they can't tell the difference between open discussion and fueling hate speech.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#483

Post by mcintyre1994 »

luckylion wrote: post #475
mcintyre1994 wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their first rule would block most of that and seems to make it pretty clear they don’t want to host those communities: > No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, or xenophobia. Code of Conduct. Code of conduct links to https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/blob/master/CODE_OF_CONDUC... Their rules are a lot stricter than Reddit’s. I’m not sure how that in practice works with it being federated, but ass…

That sounds like it applies to contributing to the source, not to users of the software, or they really want to make sure that there are few "what programming language should I use" flame wars with rules like Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every design or implementation choice carries a trade-off and numerous costs. There is seldom a right answer.

True, but the things about bigotry and harassment seem more likely to apply to the site, unless big projects get weirdly abusive issues or PRs. And it is linked from rule 1 on the website, I’m guessing the website rules isn’t referring to rules for contributing. I think maybe it’s both. I certainly don’t get the impression they want to be a Voat style ‘Reddit for after you’re banned’, regardless.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#484

Post by concordDance »

guerrilla wrote: post #398
jimbob45 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve got to give people a space to consider both sides of every argument. Better to cordone off that space than have that discussion elsewhere. If you tell someone NEVER GO INTO THE LAST DOOR ON THE THIRD STORY, they’ll endlessly wonder what’s inside. If you show them that it’s your amateur paintings, they’ll never care again.

Nobody wonders whats inside the door of pedophilia and nazism. We know. It's well documented.

Indeed. And it turns out whether pedophilia is harmful is actually controversial. See Rind et al.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#485

Post by concordDance »

IgorPartola wrote: post #359
sgillen wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might not need to talk to that guy to know beating his wife was wrong. But talking to him may make you realize he’s in a lot of pain, and that he’s been hurt by a system larger than both of you. That doesn’t absolve him of guilt but I think pragmatically it gives us a better shot at preventing such things in the far future. You don’t have to browse Nazi forums to know that gassing Jews is wrong. But you may start…

What you say has a kernel of truth to it, but I think you are thinking of the wrong tool for the job. There was a well studied psychological phenomenon (sorry I can’t recall the name of the researchers at the moment) where if you put people of similar ideology in a room together and let them converse for a period of time, they will come out of that room holding more extreme views than they went in with, down to holdi…

> Lastly, yes it is true that some points of view are just wrong. There are in fact bad ideas. Eugenics is a bad idea. Racism is a bad idea. Misogyny is a bad idea.

As someone who has been looking for good anti-racialist arguments for a long time (along with explanations for why eugenics is wrong and why we think there aren't substantial sex differences that make the sexes on average more suited to different things) the fact these kinds or things are censured and censored everywhere is immensely frustrating.

The only things I can find are sites talking about why racism is true or sites talking about why it's wrong, but I can't find resources talking about why it's false!

If you happen to have links about eugenics/racism/sexism that talk about their falseness (I mean, I presume you have actually seen arguments against them that makes you so sure they are bad/false?) then please let me know.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#486

Post by FranzFerdiNaN »

wojciii wrote: post #449
Afforess wrote: post #24

How is lemmy going to avoid the fate of the last reddit alternative (voat)? Voat attracted the communities banned from reddit, e.g the worst of the worst: jailbait, creepshots, beatingwomen, etc. The users most interested in an alternative to reddit are on average, the exact wrong type of user to help with the growth of a healthy community. I don't see any information on how being "federated" solves the hard problem…

Some subreddits were banned because other disliked the content. Like watchpeopledie. While the sub was disgusting banning it was for me the last nail in the coffin of social networks which decide what is the best for me. While I still use Reddit I'm looking for an alternative without the built-in censorship.

If you feel restricted by rules preventing you from being hurtful towards others, the problem is you, not the rules.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#487

Post by luckylion »

MattGaiser wrote: post #18

How is this going to avoid becoming like Voat? Reddit already has competitors. It is just that they are cesspools as the only people who have a strong reason to leave reddit are those reddit has banned.

> How is this going to avoid becoming like Voat?

Like as in "used by right-wing people who got kicked out of Reddit"? Probably by heavy moderation, the Lemmy developers are left to far-left as far as I can see form a glance.

Like as in "used to create an echo chamber for ideologically aligned people to talk to each other"? That may well be the goal.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#488

Post by eeZah7Ux »

jimbob45 wrote: post #286
ryder9 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nothing wrong with pedophilia or nazis

You’ve got to give people a space to consider both sides of every argument. Better to cordone off that space than have that discussion elsewhere. If you tell someone NEVER GO INTO THE LAST DOOR ON THE THIRD STORY, they’ll endlessly wonder what’s inside. If you show them that it’s your amateur paintings, they’ll never care again.

Example of the "both sides" fallacy:

https://i.imgur.com/jdaacRk.jpg

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#489

Post by luckylion »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #483
luckylion wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like it applies to contributing to the source, not to users of the software, or they really want to make sure that there are few "what programming language should I use" flame wars with rules like Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every design or implementation choice carries a trade-off and numerous costs. There is seldom a right answer.

True, but the things about bigotry and harassment seem more likely to apply to the site, unless big projects get weirdly abusive issues or PRs. And it is linked from rule 1 on the website, I’m guessing the website rules isn’t referring to rules for contributing. I think maybe it’s both. I certainly don’t get the impression they want to be a Voat style ‘Reddit for after you’re banned’, regardless.

I understood the general goal the same way.

As for CoC: I believe it's more of a signalling act than a reaction to past issues. Just like the KKK would add "no race mixing" to the rules, a left wing open source project needs to signal to their in group, and their main way of doing that is to say "no harassment based on [some criteria]".

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#490

Post by FranzFerdiNaN »

agensaequivocum wrote: post #188
badRNG wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that there's an equivalency between the advocacy for the genocide of black people, Jews, trans people, etc and opposing someone for their political beliefs. Perhaps there'd be more legitimacy in a comparison to the vitriol on the left against billionaires and cops, but these are positions of power, not identity groups one is born into. All revolutionaries of all political persuasions will oppose those i…

[flagged]

Im glad someone is standing up to protect those poor billionaires and racist cops. Because maybe they get hurt when they read someone online saying they actively hurt the world by existing! And as we all know, being a billionaire with hurt feeling is just as worse as being murdered by racist cops, or dying because a billionaire didn't want to pay taxes so he lobbied to lower taxes, causing public services to disappear!
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