571–580 of 643 posts
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>What the fuck is calling the police going to do to prevent violence after a gang has done a drive by shooting? To find the criminals that did that and put them in prison to prevent them from doing that again?
But the original argument is talking about worrying response times, not conviction rates!
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This struck me as well. Systemic racism means (to me) that if you took the people out of the system, you'd still get biased outcomes based on race. In my view, it's a different matter to say that a system produces biased results because it is designed to do so, rather than it is systemic because the people operating it make biased choices where their discretion is called on. Are there actual, current examples of syst…
> Are there actual, current examples of systemic racism where an entirely non-racist staff would still produce racially-based biased outcomes? If you removed all racists from the economy, black people as a demographic would still be at a huge disadvantage for a very long time (or forever?). The playing field might not level on it's own. If a system starts out with biased functions and runs long enough so that the dis…
This is what I tune out of the conversation whenever someone mentions "patriarchy" (the "modern" version, i.e. "men are in power" not "men own women") - I'm a man, but I've never received any benefit just because (most of) our presidents / businessmen are men (in fact, arguably (individual) women receive more benefits, because most of those men are heterosexuals).
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School shootings where children are being gunned down are vanishingly rare.
In 2019, eight people were killed and 43 were injured in 25 school shooting incidents. 2018 was much worse with 37 kids killed in school shootings. This is roughly the same as the number of unarmed black people shot and killed by police in the line of duty (at least this number has been trending downward for several years).
Reporting of school shootings is notoriously unreliable:
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-sch...
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Isn’t Chicago also where they discovered a police black site that had been operating for years? What’s the story here? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-poli...
It got shut down. It sounds bad but you have to remember how violent some of the areas get on the West and South side (Garflied Park W+E, and Engelwood are all within the top 5)
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No I'm asking for you to tell me when systemic racism ended in this country because the crux of your argument is that it has ended and the effects of it historically don't linger today. Can you explain the fact the net worth of a typical white family is $171,000 and the typical net worth of a Black family is $17,150? Are Black people in this country inherently predisposed to making less money or are there systemic re…
>Can you explain the fact the net worth of a typical white family is $171,000 and the typical net worth of a Black family is $17,150? White people have higher IQ, can therefore take higher paying job, and thus have more money. They also spend their money more wisely. Same explanation explains why East asians and jews do well, not only in the US but in any society they find themselves. Despite the fact that in the US…
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I think you make a good point about the need for law enforcement in high-crime areas, though I disagree strongly that the only solution to that problem is a police force as currently constituted in the US. I think it's worth pointing out that police often has abysmal clearance rates and response times and often do not provide effective relief from the real problems you outline. However, what I wanted to raise was thi…
> > the fact is... violent (fatal and nonfatal) crimes do happen at a much higher rate in poor neighborhoods > I think this statement is worth examining. Are you trying to suggest that there are a large number of unreported, undiscovered murders in more affluent areas? Because that's one of the the kinds of violent crime that we're pretty sure happen disproportionately in poor or black communities. (you're more likel…
No. I didn't mention murders - is there a reason you're focused on them?
I'm saying that the same forces the put poor communities of color at risk for crime also likely disrupt the collection of statistics in more wealthy & powerful communities. This is important because both sides of the ratio matter. I believe there's more crime in vulnerable communities and I believe that we likely over-estimate how much more. This generates statistics that support the over-policing of poor communities.
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The reality is that US police kill all races at shockingly high rates. Black people are killed at a higher rate, but they are a minority of those killed. The problem of the US police system is excessive use of force against all races, compounded by racism. Take the UK for example. The UK also has a history of importing slaves, it also has minorities living in poor neighborhoods, it has a similar degree of income ineq…
I think the problem starts long before the deadly force. It's not just the rate at which black people are killed, it's the rate at which they are harassed for minor offenses like jaywalking.
He has been pulled over many times in the area so is cautious, but it turns out that is a problem too. https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/h0xxva/comment/ftq6...
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Not sure You can always separate out violent from non-violent events. The police are expected to deal with a whole community in a holistic way.
> No, you never can with absolutely certainty, the question is how you distribute the costs of uncertainty. Leading with paramilitary enforcers in nearly all situations has consequences that people are not happy with, hence the defund/dismantle/abolish movement. > The police are expected to deal with a whole community in a holistic way. Which they manifestly fail to do effectively, for structural reasons. A paramilit…
The problem is that supposedly non-violent situations can turn violent or threatening very quickly. So, all officers need to be trained in use of force.
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> > the fact is... violent (fatal and nonfatal) crimes do happen at a much higher rate in poor neighborhoods > I think this statement is worth examining. Are you trying to suggest that there are a large number of unreported, undiscovered murders in more affluent areas? Because that's one of the the kinds of violent crime that we're pretty sure happen disproportionately in poor or black communities. (you're more likel…
> Are you trying to suggest that there are a large number of unreported, undiscovered murders in more affluent areas? No. I didn't mention murders - is there a reason you're focused on them? I'm saying that the same forces the put poor communities of color at risk for crime also likely disrupt the collection of statistics in more wealthy & powerful communities. This is important because both sides of the ratio matter…
I focused on murders because the grandparent DID mention them, and because murder rate is much less exposed to reporting bias than other crimes.
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> Why does a standard highway patrolman or cop doing routine speed traps need a gun? Because civilians have shot and killed police during traffic stops? And not just with guns. I seem to remember a road rage case in Colorado where the raging driver shot and killed another driver with a crossbow.
It's not clear how "there is a non-zero chance a motorist has a gun" leads to the conclusion that "all traffic enforcement must have a gun".