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Relax for the Same Result (2015)

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Re: Relax for the Same Result (2015)

#31

Post by jacobr1 »

hellofunk wrote: post #22
dredmorbius wrote: post #18

For many physical efforts, overpacing and poor form can both rob you of results. In particular, exceeding your aerobic threshold for any period of time will require recovery time --- you can pull this off at the end of a ride or in a critical effort (breakaway, hill ascent) where you'll get a chance to recover afterwards, but full on and you're simply sabotaging yourself. Perceived effort is a very poor guide. In som…

Interesting that Steve Jobs had pretty much the opposite approach to group collaboration and pressure, yet got good results from them as well. At the expense of an often very miserable working environment.

I wonder if the time-scale is relevant. Are we talking about different things when "keeping the pressure on" for project that weeks or months in duration and "maintaining intensity" for a specific effort measure in hours? Could you deescalate the latter while maintaining the former? How does that work with stress and cortisol and other factors?

Re: Relax for the Same Result (2015)

#32

Post by marcosdumay »

julianlam wrote: post #16
artificialidiot wrote: post #9

Riding a bike works like that. 2-3 minutes is a huge difference in terms of power output required. Headwinds can sap your power. Going slightly above your average feels like a headwind. A coach potato like me can output about a hundred watts on a good day so if you have money to spare and want to go faster, buy upgrades. 3 watts here, 2 watts there and you are at +10% ;)

Wait, so you're telling me "don't buy upgrades, ride up grades" is a lie? I am joking, of course, but I think you're completely right in that for beginners, a small investment in upgrades (or even just a good solid bike) pays for itself in huge boosts of performance. Of course, after that, then buying more and better things is just bad for your wallet ;)

Do you want to move faster or do you exclusively want to excercise?

Re: Relax for the Same Result (2015)

#33

Post by rhn_mk1 »

AndrewThrowaway wrote: post #23
duopixel wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took up biking as an adult again by biking with rental bikes in Mexico City (government owned) and they are built like tanks for durability, not for riding pleasure. When I finally got on a "real" bike, I flew. I was much faster and agile than my bike-riding friends. Because I couldn't upgrade the bike, I had to upgrade myself, and these investments are compatible with any kind of bike (or sport, actually).

It reminds me of one video (unfortunately I can't find it at the moment) where journalist vs pro rider were racing each other with different bikes - road, city bike, old lady's bike. What was surprising that pro on lady's bike couldn't match layman journalist on proper road bike. Basically all the energy spent on women's bike goes to flexing (heating) the frame. City bike built like tank was better as at least it was…

I'm really interested in that video. I assume that the women's bike was a steel model, since steel is supposed to be the most flexible common frame material.

Also curious about all the people who say "no surprise considering the bike".

Re: Relax for the Same Result (2015)

#34

Post by rhn_mk1 »

trabant00 wrote: post #6

For engine powered stuff when you relax you get better results. Every time I try to push for lap times on the track I end up exhausted after 20 minutes with worse times, inconsistent laps, plenty of oh shit close moments and most importantly I don't enjoy myself. Instead when I relax, focus on riding with good technique I end up with faster times. But of course the temptation to push is huge, especially if you can't…

This effect is similar with racing games, and generally enything requiring good reflexes. When exhaustion kicks in after 20-30min of trying, accuracy and lap times/scores plummet.

I would attribute it more to being focused rather than being relaxed, but those two states are connected.

Re: Relax for the Same Result (2015)

#35

Post by abakker »

ehnto wrote: post #14
trabant00 wrote: post #6

For engine powered stuff when you relax you get better results. Every time I try to push for lap times on the track I end up exhausted after 20 minutes with worse times, inconsistent laps, plenty of oh shit close moments and most importantly I don't enjoy myself. Instead when I relax, focus on riding with good technique I end up with faster times. But of course the temptation to push is huge, especially if you can't…

Same with downhill mountain biking. If you are relaxed, you are loose, and you flow smoothly which is fast. If you push too hard, you get caught out by dozens of little things you weren't expecting because you are in new territory and that slows you down. There is a time to push though, in order to move your abilities further and get familiar with the aforementioned edges of your abilities. But race day is not the ri…

Watch for the literal perfect example of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8ryQOiX05k

Aaron Gwin wins this World Cup Downhill race after breaking his chain in the first 50 yards. No pedaling after that and yet he's so smooth and fast.

Re: Relax for the Same Result (2015)

#36

Post by redelbee »

dredmorbius wrote: post #18

For many physical efforts, overpacing and poor form can both rob you of results. In particular, exceeding your aerobic threshold for any period of time will require recovery time --- you can pull this off at the end of a ride or in a critical effort (breakaway, hill ascent) where you'll get a chance to recover afterwards, but full on and you're simply sabotaging yourself. Perceived effort is a very poor guide. In som…

Thank you for the Hitchcock anecdote about creativity under pressure, that idea is new to me.

When it comes to the physical realm, perceived effort (or “rating of perceived exertion”) was shown to be as effective as heart rate for pacing interval training in this study and others it references:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4296211/

From my layman’s perspective it makes sense that perceived effort would be a great guide to overexertion as those perceptions seem to be driven by the same system that prevents us from overreaching in general. Tim Noakes calls it the “central governor” that keeps us from doing harm to ourselves:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_governor

Perhaps the best way to set yourself up for success is to decide on an optimal threshold and try to stay within its bounds, no matter the endeavor. It seemed to work for Hitchcock’s creativity and we know it works in the physical realm as well.

Then you can stress the system to see if it’s beneficial or not. Maybe we should all be doing “creative interval training” to increase our capacity for creation, just like we would to increase our cycling capacity!

Re: Relax for the Same Result (2015)

#37

Post by pritovido »

cannam wrote: post #8
scott_w wrote: post #4

I saw the mountain bike he was (presumably) using and figured the takeaway was “if you want to ride fast, get a road bike” Put another way: investment in the right tools for the job will get the results faster than killing yourself.

The photo is credited to someone else - I imagine it was chosen for beauty rather than truth. Earlier in the article there's a link to an actual bike, and it is a road bike: https://surlybikes.com/bikes/legacy/pacer

Yeah, I read the article long ago and the picture was different. I believe it was a seagull shadow on the beach or something like that.

Re: Relax for the Same Result (2015)

#38

Post by valuearb »

hellofunk wrote: post #22
dredmorbius wrote: post #18

For many physical efforts, overpacing and poor form can both rob you of results. In particular, exceeding your aerobic threshold for any period of time will require recovery time --- you can pull this off at the end of a ride or in a critical effort (breakaway, hill ascent) where you'll get a chance to recover afterwards, but full on and you're simply sabotaging yourself. Perceived effort is a very poor guide. In som…

Interesting that Steve Jobs had pretty much the opposite approach to group collaboration and pressure, yet got good results from them as well. At the expense of an often very miserable working environment.

I’m not sure what that Jobs style was the opposite. He was the industries leading example of taking your time to get it right. Like when he canceled the iPad just prior to the launch decision, and told the team to take a few years to try to make it into a phone instead.

Re: Relax for the Same Result (2015)

#39

Post by valuearb »

artificialidiot wrote: post #9

Riding a bike works like that. 2-3 minutes is a huge difference in terms of power output required. Headwinds can sap your power. Going slightly above your average feels like a headwind. A coach potato like me can output about a hundred watts on a good day so if you have money to spare and want to go faster, buy upgrades. 3 watts here, 2 watts there and you are at +10% ;)

I ride about 100 miles a week. The author either lost form trying too hard, or really wasn’t trying that hard.

Re: Relax for the Same Result (2015)

#40

Post by tasssko »

mlok wrote: post #12

This is very similar to the Pareto principle : 80% of the highest result is obtained through 20% of the highest effort. To get to 100% of the highest result you will have to deliver four times more effort. Most of the time, 80% is good enough. Save your resources for other endeavors.

I’m sure you mean well but you’ve liberally modified paretos principle. In general it is a macro indicator of outcome not effort! Something like 80% sales come from 20% of customers.
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