Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 358 posts

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#81

Post by awakeasleep »

thev4lley wrote: post #60

I don't think most people appreciate the level of regulation that ensures safety and quality of life in Western countries. Go to many countries outside of that spectrum and you may still see beautiful architecture and more. Now did the team that worked on that project have the necessary experience to drive a safe and long lasting solution? Does the concrete and steel used follow good standards? This means that it may…

I believe regulation is an essential tool for society, but it is not the whole story- morality plays as large a part.

Once the regulation is set, it can easily be undermined. BPA was banned by regulation, so industry developed analogue chemicals with the same properties and began using them.

Certain aspects of concrete & steel are regulated, so unethical effort goes into subverting the idea of the law while following the letter. Or they start sourcing the steel from outside the jurisdiction of the regulation (eg radioactive material is disposed of in China by mixing with steel made for export https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/the-growing-global...)

Not trying to be disagreeable, it's just a thought that has been bothering me.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#82

Post by tux1968 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #78
tux1968 wrote: post #45

The fact that the landing gear lever was pushed down into the extended position, and then the plane decided not to deploy the landing gear because of the overspeed issue is a horrible UI. The lever should refuse to budge unless moving it will in fact deploy the landing gear. These pilots are horrible, but that doesn't mean we can't improve the controls still.

> The lever should refuse to budge unless moving it will in fact deploy the landing gear. That introduces a new and nasty failure state, "lever locking mechanism gets stuck".

It's not hard to have an override switch. But it would at least make the pilots 100% aware and actively engaged. You have an example right in front of you how the current system is deficient.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#83

Post by mav3rick »

catalogia wrote: post #9

Unlicensed pilots are very common in Alaska. There's an old joke that the FAA hopes to get at least 50% of the pilots in Alaska properly licensed.

Wow, 1 comment against the US and people start down voting it. But are free to club the entire "East" as one incompetent hole.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#84

Post by rurp »

sriram_malhar wrote: post #31

I heard this anecdote in India, and I'm not sure if it is apocryphal. There was a small airline flying turboprops to service a Himalayan region. Someone asked whether it was safe to fly these planes and the response was as hilarious as it was scary: "Yes, sir. It is very safe. They used to have 11 planes, 10 of them crashed and now they are really really careful with the one left" :)

Heh, this reminds me of a flight my friend took from a small island country. The side of the plane proudly displayed in big letters "Fly is Safe". I don't think he was reassured...

edit: whoops, can't spell "plane" this morning

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#85

Post by ethanbond »

awakeasleep wrote: post #81
thev4lley wrote: post #60

I don't think most people appreciate the level of regulation that ensures safety and quality of life in Western countries. Go to many countries outside of that spectrum and you may still see beautiful architecture and more. Now did the team that worked on that project have the necessary experience to drive a safe and long lasting solution? Does the concrete and steel used follow good standards? This means that it may…

I believe regulation is an essential tool for society, but it is not the whole story- morality plays as large a part. Once the regulation is set, it can easily be undermined. BPA was banned by regulation, so industry developed analogue chemicals with the same properties and began using them. Certain aspects of concrete & steel are regulated, so unethical effort goes into subverting the idea of the law while following…

But you’re agreeing.

Variable morality is a problem.

The solution is (imperfect as it often is, as BPA ex illustrates) effective regulation.

Effective regulation is synonymous with “making individual moral differences irrelevant.”

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#86

Post by _ph_ »

CaptainMarvel wrote: post #76
anon102010 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh? The UI was giving them plenty of warnings and alerts. They have supposedly been trained thoroughly on all of this.

Flying didn’t become as safe as it is today by relying on the pilots to be perfect

Perfect? No. But no one, not being capable of noticing clear warnings has no business operating a vehicle, especially a commercial airplane. It is actually the corner case, that the airplane refused to deploy the wheels. Usually, there is a technical problem preventing the deployment. So checking that the landing gear actually deployed should be one of the most fundamental things a pilot does, as well as looking out for error messages.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#87

Post by kiba »

thev4lley wrote: post #60

I don't think most people appreciate the level of regulation that ensures safety and quality of life in Western countries. Go to many countries outside of that spectrum and you may still see beautiful architecture and more. Now did the team that worked on that project have the necessary experience to drive a safe and long lasting solution? Does the concrete and steel used follow good standards? This means that it may…

And yet the construction here in the US have reputation of doing shoddy works, not doing work on time, and being more expensive than they should be, while skirting any regulations any way they can.

Or at least that's my impression.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#88

Post by mchem »

ceejayoz wrote: post #64
yingw787 wrote: post #21

Older article, but apparently Pakistan carts its nuclear weapons around in regular delivery vans: https://www.wired.com/2011/11/pakistan-nukes-delivery-vans/ I personally think this is a bad idea.

There may be substantial non-visible security assets nearby. The USSS has minigun-equipped SUVs, for example; you wouldn't necessarily know they're there until the six barrel gun pops out of the sunroof and opens fire. There's something to be said for subtlety. The US President travels around in a giant motorcade; the UK PM travels in an unmarked Jag with a couple motorcycle escorts.

It helps if the escorts pay attention, though: https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN23O27W.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#89

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

bserge wrote: post #72
seesawtron wrote: post #39

On a smaller but more widespread scale is the issue of fake licenses for driving automobiles. It is common knowledge how you can get these licenses easily in "some" (similar) countries without ever giving a driving test and/or going through any sort of written exam where you have to go through the rules of the road. Some argue that they are only endangering their own lives on the road but one can see how that is comp…

In such countries, the low level corruption plays a big part in that. It's hard to pass the tests when everyone wants money directly from you. Pay a driving instructor, fail, try again, pay another guy, fail, repeat until you realize maybe it would be best to just buy it by bribing someone higher up :/

Exactly. You know that you're going to end up making a "facilitation payment" to an official to get something done after you've met all the actual, legal requirements.

What is your incentive to meet those requirements when the "bribe" to that same official to get that same thing done is the same amount of money, only you don't need to go through the legal hoops?

As a matter of law, for U.S. companies the former is legal under the FCPA whereas the latter is not. For individuals ... the incentives are all to heck.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#90

Post by xbmcuser »

andrewksl wrote: post #49

I'm genuinely, in a completely non-judgmental way, interested to understand what systemic forces lead to such a staggeringly high percentage of this brand of fraud.

In simplest of terms its corruption. When people stop believing that hard work will pay off they look for shortcuts or they leave the country.
Post reply on HN