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Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

cnn.com

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Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#61

Post by HPsquared »

tux1968 wrote: post #45

The fact that the landing gear lever was pushed down into the extended position, and then the plane decided not to deploy the landing gear because of the overspeed issue is a horrible UI. The lever should refuse to budge unless moving it will in fact deploy the landing gear. These pilots are horrible, but that doesn't mean we can't improve the controls still.

The standard is to have indicator lights showing the actual position of the gear, and alarms if you are coming in to land without the gear deployed. If these pilots were truly incompetent, they were likely used to having a wide range of alarms constantly going off and probably ignored the alarm.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#62

Post by tass »

tux1968 wrote: post #45

The fact that the landing gear lever was pushed down into the extended position, and then the plane decided not to deploy the landing gear because of the overspeed issue is a horrible UI. The lever should refuse to budge unless moving it will in fact deploy the landing gear. These pilots are horrible, but that doesn't mean we can't improve the controls still.

This would make the control less reliable as well as more expensive and heavier. Additionally, there are other factors which may prevent the gear from deploying so you need to check even if the lever successfully moved.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#63

Post by HPsquared »

tux1968 wrote: post #57
anon102010 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh? The UI was giving them plenty of warnings and alerts. They have supposedly been trained thoroughly on all of this.

They were distracted. Why on earth would you object to the idea of better feedback? If the lever is locked until the plane is willing to engage the landing gear, it's more safe than the current UI.

What if the gear lever erroneously prevents the pilot from lowering the gear when he needs to? Such a system introduces additional failure modes.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#64

Post by ceejayoz »

yingw787 wrote: post #21

Older article, but apparently Pakistan carts its nuclear weapons around in regular delivery vans: https://www.wired.com/2011/11/pakistan-nukes-delivery-vans/ I personally think this is a bad idea.

There may be substantial non-visible security assets nearby. The USSS has minigun-equipped SUVs, for example; you wouldn't necessarily know they're there until the six barrel gun pops out of the sunroof and opens fire.

There's something to be said for subtlety. The US President travels around in a giant motorcade; the UK PM travels in an unmarked Jag with a couple motorcycle escorts.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#65

Post by fredoralive »

tux1968 wrote: post #57
anon102010 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh? The UI was giving them plenty of warnings and alerts. They have supposedly been trained thoroughly on all of this.

They were distracted. Why on earth would you object to the idea of better feedback? If the lever is locked until the plane is willing to engage the landing gear, it's more safe than the current UI.

What happens if the lockout mechanism breaks and prevents a pilot from selecting gear down when the landing conditions are right?

(I guess they could go for the gravity deployment backup mode, but that would be rather extreme option for a broken solonoid (or so on) on a control lever).

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#66

Post by HPsquared »

thev4lley wrote: post #60

I don't think most people appreciate the level of regulation that ensures safety and quality of life in Western countries. Go to many countries outside of that spectrum and you may still see beautiful architecture and more. Now did the team that worked on that project have the necessary experience to drive a safe and long lasting solution? Does the concrete and steel used follow good standards? This means that it may…

In the nuclear industry this is called "procedural use and adherence". It's one thing to have a written "de jure" way of doing things, but quite another to actually follow said rules.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#67

Post by mav3rick »

sriram_malhar wrote: post #31

I heard this anecdote in India, and I'm not sure if it is apocryphal. There was a small airline flying turboprops to service a Himalayan region. Someone asked whether it was safe to fly these planes and the response was as hilarious as it was scary: "Yes, sir. It is very safe. They used to have 11 planes, 10 of them crashed and now they are really really careful with the one left" :)

Way to take a joke and extrapolate it to the truth. Many friends worked hard for their licenses.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#68

Post by tux1968 »

fredoralive wrote: post #65
tux1968 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were distracted. Why on earth would you object to the idea of better feedback? If the lever is locked until the plane is willing to engage the landing gear, it's more safe than the current UI.

What happens if the lockout mechanism breaks and prevents a pilot from selecting gear down when the landing conditions are right? (I guess they could go for the gravity deployment backup mode, but that would be rather extreme option for a broken solonoid (or so on) on a control lever).

Anything can break in a plane which is why you design redundancy into the system. You could provide a manual override switch too.. but at least it would be a conscious act done by the pilot who is aware of the situation.

I can't believe anyone is defending the current UI given we have an obvious example right in front of us of how it can fail.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#69

Post by pbhjpbhj »

tux1968 wrote: post #57
anon102010 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh? The UI was giving them plenty of warnings and alerts. They have supposedly been trained thoroughly on all of this.

They were distracted. Why on earth would you object to the idea of better feedback? If the lever is locked until the plane is willing to engage the landing gear, it's more safe than the current UI.

Shouldn't it be more like you get rumble feedback and the stick pushes back against you, hard, if there's an overspeed warning? But if the stick is pushed again, all the way, requiring considerable manual force, then landing gear extension is attempted?

Why do I say this? Well then the pilot has autonomy, if the overspeed warning is an error, or you have a problem reducing speed you can still attempt to fly the aircraft?

I mean sure, there'll be a speed at which gear extension just causes a crash, but there's also presumably mid-ground.??

Edit: total armchair aero engineering it; also in this case it might just have caused a problem at greater altitude ... but then at least there's time to correct things.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#70

Post by kilroy123 »

yingw787 wrote: post #21

Older article, but apparently Pakistan carts its nuclear weapons around in regular delivery vans: https://www.wired.com/2011/11/pakistan-nukes-delivery-vans/ I personally think this is a bad idea.

This can not be true. I don't want to believe.
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