Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

blog.aboutamazon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 247 posts

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#231

Post by Amezarak »

p1necone wrote: post #205
Amezarak wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reselling Monster energy drinks in my office. I tried ordering some from Amazon, since the bigger packs are more readily available, and for lower prices, allowing me to sell cans for a cheaper per-unit price. The very first pack I got was clearly counterfeit. The cans were subtly different both in appearance and etching. A brave volunteer who tried some also reported it tasted off. If they're counterfeiting ene…

I wonder if the "silent majority" is just all the people sufficiently fooled by the counterfeiting?

I think there's probably three factors:

- the majority of brand name items on Amazon aren't counterfeits. It's a big problem, but it's also a big platform, with plenty of real stock and genuine sellers.

- not all items have counterfeits. Some brands and types of products are under enough control or aren't popular/visible/profitable enough to be counterfeited. And some are just just brands anyway - nobody is counterfeiting the no-name junk brand USB cables that Amazon sells from fly-by-night operations. Plenty of people actually buy this stuff and while they might or might not get a poor quality product that might or might not adhere to environmental or consumer protection laws, it isn't a counterfeit and they might be happy.

- some counterfeits are good enough. For exampel, you're unlikely to ever notice you got a counterfeit book unless they do a bad job (apparently pretty common - I've only gotten a couple I was suspicious of, but I am very careful about buying books, but there are really low-effort garbage counterfeits produced out there that are clearly fake, up to Wikipedia printouts.) Even when they make the book out of cheaper paper or the book is badly printed, you may not have the familiarity with the publisher to know that it's a counterfeit and not just that the publisher doesn't suck.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#232

Post by danielecook »

ac29 wrote: post #165
alexpetralia wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone clarify how they found out their purchases were counterfeit (e.g. if I buy a Bose product "Sold By" Bose, it could be a counterfeit?)? As someone who purchases things from Amazon and only care about if they work or not, I haven't had much an issue. If I've been loading up on counterfeits, it doesn't seem to have been a problem.

> if I buy a Bose product "Sold By" Bose, it could be a counterfeit? Yes, because Amazon co-mingles item of the same SKU. A legit item could be shipped to someone who buys from a scammer, and a counterfeit could be shipped to someone who buys from a legit seller.

I don’t get it. So when you see a listing on amazon it’s not as though one seller created it?

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#233

Post by exhilaration »

zyl1n wrote: post #222
rckoepke wrote: post #11

The categories of things that I've received counterfeit versions of on Amazon have been truly mind-blowing. It's been replacement HEPA filters, cat toys, even breakfast cereal. It's not just earphones/mics, batteries, usb cables, flash drives, extension cords, and other electronics. Who counterfeits breakfast cereal??? I've had this issue with both Quaker Oats and Raisin Bran. The scale of fraud is magnificent. And i…

Reading these comments, it feels a bit strange that I have never gotten a counterfeit product from Amazon, and I bought a dozen items from Amazon within last two months: RAM, electric kettle, wall clock, books, phone case, humidifier, ramen and fresh groceries (like fruits and cheese). The only problem I had was a few books were dented in corner of spines a bit. Is this phenomenon country specific? Or is it because I…

You probably can't tell. A friend bought a Samsung Bluetooth headset from Amazon several years ago, it looked genuine and worked well until it died. He sent it in for warranty service and Samsung sent it back with a note saying that it was counterfeit.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#234

Post by boring_twenties »

wombat-man wrote: post #120
rckoepke wrote: post #11

The categories of things that I've received counterfeit versions of on Amazon have been truly mind-blowing. It's been replacement HEPA filters, cat toys, even breakfast cereal. It's not just earphones/mics, batteries, usb cables, flash drives, extension cords, and other electronics. Who counterfeits breakfast cereal??? I've had this issue with both Quaker Oats and Raisin Bran. The scale of fraud is magnificent. And i…

This is one of the reasons I don't buy a lot of stuff from amazon anymore. I don't have a printer to make return labels and easy returns are cold comfort. At the end of the day I just prefer to go in person to a store or order from a big box store. As long as you stay away from their weird 3rd party sellers, I feel pretty sure I'm getting real cereal or whatever.

Recently you can just bring items to your choice of businesses near you like UPS Store or Whole Foods, they handle the packing and shipping for you.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#235

Post by ttsda »

rckoepke wrote: post #50
julianozen wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really interested to hear how you figured out the breakfast was fake

Yeah, great question. Basically wrong flavor and texture. Visually looked quite similar but just had a cardboard consistency. Repeatedly compared vs. grocery store bought over a few months span of alternating purchases to confirm. It was somehow both immediately obvious and also subtle. My girlfriend eventually confirmed that something didn't seem right with it, so we started buying back-to-back orders alternating fr…

I bet those were real cereal that baked in the heat for a few days.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#236

Post by throwaway_jobs »

bdowling wrote: post #194
throwaway_jobs wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is one (plus the story of a defective product lawsuit behind it). A water slide. The type that bolts down into concrete for use with pools. If the first thing in your mind is...isn’t that something from the 70’s/80’s...yes it is. So the counterfeiter must have molded the entire slide (complete with the company logo that was embossed into the slide itself) thing is that company was dissolved back in the 80’s. So…

I assume this is the same defective water slide case: https://www.casebriefs.com/blog/law/civil-procedure/civil-pr... Here, the issue was whether the defendant manufacturer could amend their pleading to deny manufacturing the defective water slide after they had initially admitted it. The court found that they could. Subsequently, a special jury found that the defendant did not manufacture the water slide and the jud…

No that I believe is an aquaslide case from the 70’s. I was looking myself for the case I am referencing and kept getting this case too (and some inflatable slide cases).

Very similar factually...someone bought a aquaslide, slide was delivered and installed (but what was delivered wasn’t an aquaslide, but unlike the case I reference the aquaslide and actually delivered slide had no markings/branding. IIRC in that case multiple insurers examined the slide and as you say admitted the slide was an aquaslide, but after being examined by an aquaslide employee they reversed course.

The details are slim, but I have a feeling the slide actually wasn’t theirs as confirmed by testing the plastic (but this I really don’t know).

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#237

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

ornornor wrote: post #204
mkl wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was the ladder counterfeit, or just crappy?

In any case, how is amazon not responsible for selling a ladder that obviously didn’t meet safety standards??

They aren't, until someone can afford the lawyers necessary to prove their responsibility. Or the class is large enough for group action.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#238

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

jtbayly wrote: post #173
throwaway_jobs wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is one (plus the story of a defective product lawsuit behind it). A water slide. The type that bolts down into concrete for use with pools. If the first thing in your mind is...isn’t that something from the 70’s/80’s...yes it is. So the counterfeiter must have molded the entire slide (complete with the company logo that was embossed into the slide itself) thing is that company was dissolved back in the 80’s. So…

> One day Amazon is going to get smacked with such a lawsuit resulting in billions in punitive damages, then and only then will you see real effort on their part to curb this behavior. Amazon has been sued many times over similar things. The precedent is very strong. They win every case because they are not the seller. Unless the law changes, there is little hope of this happening like you expect.

How is Amazon not obviously guilty of aiding and abetting, willful negligence, or at the very least reckless endangerment? In an individual case I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Yet the bodies keep piling up under Bezos.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#239

Post by smichel17 »

jtbayly wrote: post #181
chrischen wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is a direct beneficiary though. I’m not sure why they are not the seller. In that case can’t they just setup shell companies to sell shoddy, fake, or illegal items, take 99% of the profit, and claim they are not the seller?

No. The primary beneficiary is the seller. If you want to sue somebody you have to sue the seller. That’s what precedent says, anyway. Yes, Amazon could setup shell corporations, but if they got tracked back to Amazon, that would be the end of the company. Why not just setup a bunch of side businesses producing and selling legal things (like their batteries, clothes, etc. brands) and collect all the profit there, whi…

[Hypothetical] If I buy a legitimate product from a legitimate seller, and end up with a counterfeit due to commingling, I don't see any reasonable story for how anyone but Amazon should be liable for that. They substituted the product I ordered with an inferior one.

And then, of course, Amazon should turn around and sue whoever provided them the counterfeit product. But the first level of culpability is still with Amazon.

It's like if I'm driving, waiting at a red light, and someone rear-ends me, causing me to rear-end the car in front of me. The person I hit sues me, wins, and I turn around and sue the person behind me for both the damage to my car and whatever I lost in the first lawsuit (probably all via insurance).

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#240

Post by everdrive »

mkl wrote: post #174
everdrive wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely had a ladder I bought on Amazon collapse when I was using it. It’s dumb luck that I didn’t fall off.

Was the ladder counterfeit, or just crappy?

In fairness, I think it was a just crappy. It never occurred to me that anyone would sell a ladder that could catastrophically fail, so I wasn't on the lookout for that.
Post reply on HN