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Google Blew a Ten-Year Lead

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Re: Google Blew a Ten-Year Lead

#471
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing of stuff just stagnating and no care to scrub the rough corners is crazy. On the outset, you might think with such ridiculously high compensation there would be an expectation of quality, but I think that's an error. Google operates as an ad-company that happens to employ ridiculous amounts of exhorbitantly compensated individuals to engage in market and technological research, particularly to open or exp…

mail, docs, drive et al ... they created them to _open a new market_ for advertising This seems obviously false. Google clearly monetizes gsuite as a paid service, and "everyone uses the same service at home that they do at work" has clear advantages, whether or not there is advertising in your gmail. Advertising in (consumer) gmail came long after paid gsuite (or "google apps for domains", as they called it then - h…

Gmail very quickly introduced advertising in your mailbox. There was a huge outcry because they would scan your mails to provide contextual advertising.

This was before other GSuite components even existed.

Re: Google Blew a Ten-Year Lead

#472
Seems to be their modus operandi to me, there have been some talks ranging from light ribbing to full on bashing regarding the new iOS update cause they have added features that have existed in Android for decades now. But what have they done with widgets in all this while other than letting it rot? Even Google services themselves don't bother with making a good widget and now Apple will do the same, possibly better.

Re: Google Blew a Ten-Year Lead

#473
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, i am aware of it. on the other hand which PR-ides itself with one of the hardest hiring selection process on the market it might be a statement about this process.

Does Google's project manager interview panel have a reputation for rigor, or is this just the engineering panel reputation rubbing off?

I imagine it must be harder to hire PMs without making decision mistakes given that their job skills are harder to test for in an interview setting.

Re: Google Blew a Ten-Year Lead

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's changed, dramatically. I was there from 09-14 and then just rejoined last week. In 09-10 there was a huge problem of "launch and run" - people would launch, they'd get promoted, then they'd be reassigned to other higher-priority projects to get them launched too, and their previous project would get shut down rather than maintained. Nowadays there seems to be a lot more emphasis on stability and long-ter…

are they getting _promoted_ though. successful promo packet for sustaining work would be a very big change.

I've seen a bunch of successful promo packets for work on code health, system reliability, etc. - including promos to L6.

The "trick" to successful L5 and L6 promos (and above) for this sort of work is to have credible estimates of the actual impact of your work. Way too many engineers spend quarters or years refactoring or rewriting systems, and then go for promo with a case that's basically: "System X was kludgy, crufty, and engineers complained about it. I designed and lead implementation of a clean-up effort, and now people say it's nicer."

That's generally not going to cut it. You might get lucky, or you might get bailed out by a peer reviewer that provides solid data about the impact of your work, but you can't count on this, and you should be doing the legwork yourself.

You need impact estimates. That generally means you need some measurements, although the measurements don't have to be perfect. What metrics measure the pain that the existing system is causing? Some examples might be:

- Average # of hours required to push a release

- Average SWE-days/SWE-quarters/etc. required to develop a representative feature change

- Average monthly user-reported bugs

Spend some time actually measuring this stuff. Write some queries, run an internal survey of the developers on affected teams, etc. Take it seriously. Ideally, do all this before you've actually started work on the cleanup you want to do. Write a proposal doc, get it reviewed by others, and make sure they find your estimates credible. If the numbers are smaller than you expected, reconsider whether the clean-up is worth the time you're considering investing in it.

After you've completed your project, measure again. If your project is amenable to an experiment-style launch, that's ideal, but pre- and post- measurements are fine too. Share the stats - advertise your team's success! Package them up in a nice doc you can link to in your promo case.

"How am I supposed to find the time to do this while I'm doing my normal job?" This is your normal job. The opportunity cost of your time is $XXXk/quarter. The opportunity cost of your team's time is $X million-$XX million/quarter. The single most important thing you can do is make sure that time is being invested in a high value way. In your personal life, you would look for a lot of data before you invested that kind of money - you should be doing the same at work.

In general, as you move up you should expect to spend a higher percentage of your time figuring out what problems you're going to work on. As a result, the fraction of your time that you spend actually designing and implementing the solutions to those problems will decrease, but it's still a net win because you and your team will be focused on tackling the really important problems.

In summary, it's possible to be really successful and quickly move up the ladder by doing "sustaining work". The catch is that you have to be rigorous about choosing the specific "sustaining work" to spend your time on.

Re: Google Blew a Ten-Year Lead

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google was the oppositive of boring: - GMail with "unlimited" (never-seen-before 1GB) of storage when everyone had 10MB quotas was a "holy shit" moment, and fast web mail was a fresh breath of air - Google Maps, yet another "holy shit" experience when you used Mapquest before - Google Translate, so much better than everything that came before - Google search - OK that's late 1990s but I remember the "aha" moment of t…

> You notice that all of these were more than a decade ago before their IPO. I don't, and neither does wikipedia: Gmail: April 1, 2004 IPO: Aug 19, 2004 Maps: February 8, 2005 Translate: April 28, 2006

even search was just ~6 yrs pre IPO

Re: Google Blew a Ten-Year Lead

#476
post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the reason they probably want to stay an ad company is so they don't get stuck with IBM sized workforce. Their lack of customer support is border line criminal.

Lol, no. They have >100k employees.

Google has 118,899 employees.

IBM has 352,600 which is about 3x the number of employees that Google has.

Re: Google Blew a Ten-Year Lead

#477

It is well known the incentives at Google are aligned at working on new features than maintaining them and keeping users happy. May be this is just a natural outcome of that. This is one of the most damaging things Google and the people it influenced did to programming profession. There is a generation of programmers now who can do very well on leetcode, but god help those who maintain that code after them - I know t…

For an anecdotal counter-example, the habits of code maintenance I picked up at Google are 10x better than anywhere else I've worked at. I've worked at small and medium-sized companies (and my current company is research-focused enough that a lot of people don't have a strong engineering background), but this is also what I hear from my Xoogler friends at (eg) Uber and Airbnb. I'd be surprised if this tendency had an…

I haven't moved beyond Google yet (I want to, though, who is hiring... :-) ), but yes, to be honest, better code cleanliness, testing, style conformity, and good code review ability are the major things I've learned in the 8 years I've been there. Most other skills one picks up at Google are not transferrable outside of Google.

Re: Google Blew a Ten-Year Lead

#478
post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An old gmail account being noisy is probably more a function of it being old than it being a gmail account. I suspect he'd see a great improvement just starting a new email address. Hey's screener feature shows there's a lot of room to innovate on giving users control of their attention beyond the filters and labels that Gmail has deemed sufficient for more than a decade now. Setting up forwarding to use Hey as a r…

I watched the HEY video and I don't get it - the screener feature is not innovation - it's a block list with a different name. Gmail has this. The way Jason hyped up every feature and then you realise it's something that already exists with a special "product name" (Imbox, really?). I can see why people buy into the marketing speak but look a little deeper.

Gmail does not have something like Hey's screener.

Re: Google Blew a Ten-Year Lead

#479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I guess it's because Figma has fewer features, but if OP used PS for web/app design, wouldn't this be fair?

Because photoshop is primarily a complex software for professional raster image editing/designing. Those who use it for that purpose will not think of Figma as its replacement. Figma is a SVG based UX design tool and those who do UX design in 2020 most likely (hopefully) aren't using a heavy/complex raster graphics tool like photoshop.

No, I understand and agree with all of that, I sometimes design UIs and I wouldn’t touch PS with a laser pointer for that purpose.

But the article talks about software from 10 years ago to now. I remember even as Sketch had been rising for a while, something like 52% of UI designers still used PS. Pretty sure that wasn’t even close to 10 years ago!

So I guess that’s why I thought PS->Figma was a reasonable jump in that context. Even if they used Sketch in the interim or whatever.

Re: Google Blew a Ten-Year Lead

#480
I'm still annoyed that they screwed up the release of Google Wave. The mistake was to make it a separate service instead of building it into Gmail and making it another "type of email" you can send.
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