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You can't tell people anything (2004)

habitatchronicles.com

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Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#91
People interpret your words in context of an existing framework of understanding.

If I tell you "we're adding a button to the help page", you understand that "button" means "software GUI element" and "help page" means "hypetext page on the world wide web". You do not immediately get out needle and thread and start poking holes in paper.

The challenge, then, is telling people that the framework itself is wrong. In order to understand what you're saying, your words have already gone through and been filtered by the very framework you are trying to change.

VR really suffers from this. How do you get someone excited about VR by showing them flat images of it on a typical display? You can't. If you could translate the experience to a flat display then, by definition, VR wouldn't really be adding anything.

By letting a person experience the thing itself directly, you sidestep a lot of that framework and context. You don't need to get the point across in metaphor, analogies, or simulation. You don't need a persuasive map when you can literally drop them into the territory and let them both draw their own map and directly see for themselves in what ways the map is lacking.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#92
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much monthly income would a person need to support themselves and work on what they want to work on?

Have you heard of the 4% rule? That basically means if you save up X amount, you can spend 4% of X every year, in perpetuity, given some reasonable return like 7%. So if you can live on $80k/year, save and invest $2 million.

I can live on much less than $80k and I actually currently do. But $2 million actually sounds like a reasonable goal. If I can get it down to $1 million then that will be achievable.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#93
post #58
post #7

I often think of this as "it's hard to tell people the solution to a problem they don't have", or don't know they have. I think it's one of the major problems in the entire structure of the educational system... it's all telling people solutions to problems they don't have yet. Sometimes this is just unavoidable; I'm not sure how to turn geography into a problem you have. (I mean, you can fake it, but people's brains…

> "it's hard to tell people the solution to a problem they don't have" It's my main complaint with how maths and physics were taught in school. I didn't understand electricity, trigonometry, integrals etc until long after school when I started tinkering with microcontrollers and robots, and had to solve real-world problems. Then, suddenly all those concepts sprung into life and got real meaning with clear and observa…

Good story.

Reminds me of a great story by Neil Stephenson about his experience of learning by doing the experiments:

https://youtu.be/_J4QPz52Sfo&t=4511

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#94
post #79
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often think of this as "it's hard to tell people the solution to a problem they don't have", or don't know they have. This may be way off in another field, but this is actually frustrating to me as a father in another way: when we watch shows or read books with our child so many of the stories are so far detached from reality as to make me ask, "Why are we asking kids to care about this?" I have particular ire fo…

To add to your complaints, so many narratives designed for kids have such a clear delineation between the good side and the bad side. I'm not sure it's great for kids to be so steeped in the belief that the good and the bad are always and immediately obvious. Another qualm I have, similar to yours, is the number of kids' shows that focus on "problem-solving" but then have the solution be some sort of magic item they…

PBS Kids and Mister Rogers are wonderful educational TV. Almost everything else in the "20 minute cartoon industry" is garbage.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#95
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often think of this as "it's hard to tell people the solution to a problem they don't have", or don't know they have. This may be way off in another field, but this is actually frustrating to me as a father in another way: when we watch shows or read books with our child so many of the stories are so far detached from reality as to make me ask, "Why are we asking kids to care about this?" I have particular ire fo…

Have you found any good counterexamples? We let our three-year-old watch Daniel Tiger’s Neighborhood and I love it because it is exactly this: short (~10 minute) stories about situations and conflicts that a young child will encounter in everyday life. I’d be really interested to hear of other good shows & books like this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Daniel_Tiger%27s_Nei...

Stick with PBS Kids and Sesame Street and Mister Rogers reruns.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#96
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of the 4% rule? That basically means if you save up X amount, you can spend 4% of X every year, in perpetuity, given some reasonable return like 7%. So if you can live on $80k/year, save and invest $2 million.

I can live on much less than $80k and I actually currently do. But $2 million actually sounds like a reasonable goal. If I can get it down to $1 million then that will be achievable.

Yes, if you can get your expenses under 40K a year, you'll be good. I read a lot of financial independence / FIRE forums. Some people are much more conservative and think 4% is too high. They prefer the 3.5% or even 3% rule. For a very early, longer retirement, they are probably right. The 4% rule was based on a "normal" 30 year retirement.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#97
post #7

I often think of this as "it's hard to tell people the solution to a problem they don't have", or don't know they have. I think it's one of the major problems in the entire structure of the educational system... it's all telling people solutions to problems they don't have yet. Sometimes this is just unavoidable; I'm not sure how to turn geography into a problem you have. (I mean, you can fake it, but people's brains…

Trouble is, it's hard to get a class of 30 kids interested in the same problems at the same time for exactly as long as the mass-production curriculum allows.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#98

People interpret your words in context of an existing framework of understanding. If I tell you "we're adding a button to the help page", you understand that "button" means "software GUI element" and "help page" means "hypetext page on the world wide web". You do not immediately get out needle and thread and start poking holes in paper. The challenge, then, is telling people that the framework itself is wrong. In ord…

Speaking of VR, do you have a favorite headset? Or have you used one that you thought was good?

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#99
post #7

I often think of this as "it's hard to tell people the solution to a problem they don't have", or don't know they have. I think it's one of the major problems in the entire structure of the educational system... it's all telling people solutions to problems they don't have yet. Sometimes this is just unavoidable; I'm not sure how to turn geography into a problem you have. (I mean, you can fake it, but people's brains…

I would love to see your training guide/tour.

Re: You can't tell people anything (2004)

#100
post #66
post #7

I often think of this as "it's hard to tell people the solution to a problem they don't have", or don't know they have. I think it's one of the major problems in the entire structure of the educational system... it's all telling people solutions to problems they don't have yet. Sometimes this is just unavoidable; I'm not sure how to turn geography into a problem you have. (I mean, you can fake it, but people's brains…

> I often think of this as "it's hard to tell people the solution to a problem they don't have", or don't know they have. This may be way off in another field, but this is actually frustrating to me as a father in another way: when we watch shows or read books with our child so many of the stories are so far detached from reality as to make me ask, "Why are we asking kids to care about this?" I have particular ire fo…

I disagree. I think stories like this are important. They teach you to take a hypothetical scenario seriously. It teaches people to ask "what if X were true?" and to seriously consider the ramifications. This is a springboard into abstract thinking. Without people taking the hypothetical seriously they will want to deal with concrete things and will have trouble with abstract reasoning.

Imagine you were trying to have a discussion about racism with someone. You would tell them "How would you feel if one day you woke up black and people were biased against you due to your skin color?" They would tell you that it's the dumbest thing they've ever heard. Who have you ever known that woke up with a different skin color?[0] For someone to take an argument like this seriously they have to be willing to engage in a hypothetical scenario. Waking up with a different skin color is as fantastical as the stories you're talking about. This means that they won't engage with your hypothetical scenario.

[0] This is an argument made by James Flynn in his amazing TED talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vpqilhW9uI

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