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Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

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Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it is, nor that it isn't. I'm saying we shouldn't hurl epithets at people for commenting on political concerns that affect them, just because we don't like their point of view. There's a difference between "anti-immigrant" and "anti-H1B." Look up the definition of "bigotry." People on both sides of the issue should be tolerant of reasonable commentary from the other side.

Did I hurl an epithet? I'm confused here.

Yes, you did. You have now edited your comment to remove the part where you expressed your shock at seeing so many "anti-immigrant" commenters on HN. Don't gaslight.

EDIT: I made a mistake, you made the comment two posts above, not in the prior post. That's why I didn't see it when I came to reply; I looked at the immediate parent rather than going back a ways. But it's right there two posts above, you're decrying "anti-immigrant" commenters. When you set up the debate in that way, there's no consideration of the argument on the other side. You just write it off as being somehow hateful or motivated by prejudice. I don't dispute that some people are prejudiced, but that isn't the only basis upon which H1B policy can be judged. There are tens of millions of unemployed people in the USA right now. Suspension of H1B prioritizes those people over foreign nationals. It's not necessarily a question of anti-immigrant sentiment.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#272
post #4

As an intended MBA applicant for the class of 2021, the recent uncertainty around H1B visas makes me very uneasy and disappointed. I was forced to leave the U.S. back in 2016 despite having an investment banking job and paying meaningful taxes, which was incredibly frustrating. I was hoping for another shot at living and working in the US after completing an MBA, and now it looks like there either won't be a chance o…

Avoid US schools. Don't be a fool. Don't go into 6-figure debt for no ROI and a brutal environment that doesn't want you. It's a no-brainer. Avoid any business, education or employment in the US.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#273
post #209
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to convey to a citizen how demoralizing being on an H1B is. If you get laid off, you have at best 30 days to find a new job and transfer your visa (from what I remember), otherwise you have to leave the country . H1B does not allow moonlighting. You can't start a startup by yourself. You can't take significant time off between jobs unless you transfer your visa and negotiate it. Your spouse likely won't be…

if you live in a city for several years and settle in, form friendships, hobbies, and maybe relationships I suddenly find myself wondering if the path to reform for H1B could be short duration combine with some kind of fast-track naturalization. Does it even make sense for the transactional H1B to be so long term? If the H1B led to rapid naturalization, it would naturally curtail use of H1B over time, as the US popul…

> I suddenly find myself wondering if the path to reform for H1B could be short duration combine with some kind of fast-track naturalization. Does it even make sense for the transactional H1B to be so long term?

I agree, but I think you mean permanent residency. Naturalization is the step after that.

The H1B should really be a kind of temporary defined-term green card that can be used with any employer (or none), with a quick path to a green card for anyone who can prove consistent employability.

I think an initial sponsorship is fine, but tying the visa to the sponsorship is really only beneficial to the employer. If they have a true need to sponsor an immigrant, they shouldn't have any problem keeping their offer attractive enough that retention shouldn't be a problem.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I hurl an epithet? I'm confused here.

Yes, you did. You have now edited your comment to remove the part where you expressed your shock at seeing so many "anti-immigrant" commenters on HN. Don't gaslight. EDIT: I made a mistake, you made the comment two posts above, not in the prior post. That's why I didn't see it when I came to reply; I looked at the immediate parent rather than going back a ways. But it's right there two posts above, you're decrying "a…

The only edits I've made are for grammatical changes or typographical errors, done quickly after the initial posting as I am a poor proofreader. I am really not sure what you're talking about. My original comment stands that yes, I am shocked to see so many anti-immigrant comments here. That seems like a pretty blandly accurate description to me. No one has been called a name.

Many more comments are non sequiturs about the various shortcomings of the H1B program which has nothing to do with why it was suspended. My comment doesn't label every participant in this thread as anti-immigrant.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't dismiss comments about H1Bs that are divorced from the perceived motivations of the White House. The effect of suspending H1B is not dependent upon the motivations of the decision. The decision is substantial. It has consequences and externalities that extend beyond whatever single motive we could ascribe to the White House.

This is disingenuous and only possible if you ignore the multiple other anti-immigrant changes the Trump administration has made.

As I said in the other thread, please don't hurl epithets at people. If you disagree with me, you don't have to call me deceitful.

Do you disagree that there are consequences and externalities to the H1B suspension that go beyond our best guess at the motivations of the White House? That's what I suggest in my comment, but you haven't addressed that at all.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoid US schools. Don't be a fool. Don't go into 6-figure debt for no ROI and a brutal environment that doesn't want you. It's a no-brainer. Avoid any business, education or employment in the US.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes

Trump dictates absolute EOs which hold the power of law.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#277
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The H1B worker isn't competing with the average Joe, he's competing with the Joe who's qualified to do the job, but didn't get it because the employer preferred someone with no leverage who can be easily controlled and underpaid.

do you know how expensive is to bring someone on an H1B? the relocation itself is >50k. The salary has to be in the same range as the other workers in the same position. It’s literally more expensive to hire someone on an H1b. why would big tech so this if average Joe is qualified and could do the Job?

> It’s literally more expensive to hire someone on an H1b.

I am highly skeptical of this claim as well as the fact that relocation is paid for average H1B worker. Your experience might be typical for top paying SV tech companies but not the local municipal state government that is hiring H1Bs for manual GUI testing.

In any case, most H1B workers are hired multiple levels below their experience level so companies are paying less for more experience. And given that your average Indian H1B cannot jump to another job for many years due to the GC/EAD queue, they are typically coerced into putting way more hours than Americans workers that understand labor laws so companies are still profiting off of the wage/hr imbalance after the initial fixed relocation cost.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unbelievable how naked the anti-immigrant sentiment from you and numerous other commenters. I'm honestly shocked.

hn is particularly anti-immigration when it comes to h1b/immigrants "taking" tech jobs. also a lot veiled xenophobia re: developers from poorer countries which is absolutely disgusting (and it's something that hits me particularly).

Welcome to HN.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're saying, but the "fake job search" never yields any qualified hits, I haven't had to "fake reject" anyone so far. I'm being totally honest with you. I'm sure I could wait a year and finally find an American born candidate who will pass the interview, but that would mean my projects and timelines are hosed. We've tried to go the intern route and hire American undergrads as interns and then convert the…

The goal of the fake job search is to avoid qualified hits, not to get them. If, in the fake search, we had found an American candidate with similar qualifications who would accept a similar salary it would have been worse than useless. Honestly reporting that would have sunk our employee's green card application, and we had no ability to hire a new person at all. The problem in a real search is finding talent; the p…

Well thanks for depressing me for the rest of the day.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that would satisfy the ego of most regular Americans, to say nothing about the leadership. Exceptionalism is very deeply ingrained here.

Regular Americans have very little interest in the rest of the world and derive very little ego from that global role. Americans are nearly universally mocked for that lack of interest. The notion they derive much ego from something they pay so little attention to and have so little interest in, is obviously false. Regular Americans are largely indifferent to the rest of the world. Trump got elected in part on a plat…

Lol. You don't want to be a superpower but simultaneously also want rising stock markets and global influence.

Before you make the next comment, please check out UK stock indices and Japanese stock indices. Make sure you are ok with the inflated prices they have to pay.

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