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Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

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Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#141

Post by mikeyouse »

ActsJuvenile wrote: post #93
automated_toast wrote: post #8

I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out.

Doctors vs Software Engineers are very interesting case studies in my eyes. AMA (American Medical Association) has successfully lobbied congress to cap residencies at 100K a year, essentially restricting supply. Foreign doctors have to go through a gauntlet of exams, tests, and licenses that keeps market from being flooded with cheaper talent and diluting local doctor salaries. Software Engineers have failed to unite…

The AMA doesn't institute caps though they may have lobbied for one in the past (which I kind of doubt) - the Federal Government has the cap via the GME program at the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services. Residents are expensive to host and Medicare pays something like $10B/year to train new physicians. Congress could increase that amount tomorrow if they felt like it.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#142

Post by christiansakai »

umvi wrote: post #78

There are 2 sides to every coin. It can be frustrating/demoralizing to American software developers as well, when they go to interview for a job, to see they are competing with an absolute flood of Indian and Chinese H1Bs. Then, when all of your interviewers are Chinese and Indian as well and you don't get the job, you sort of feel like the victim of favoritism and that you've been pushed out of your own country's in…

Well if you don't perform well on interviews then why expect we hand the job to you?

These Indians, Chinese, Russians, Brazilian developers are more willing to grind Leetcode and study until insanity (solving 300 Leetcode problems is not uncommon) and will kill majority of interviews out there.

They came here to study hard, from 3rd world countries, and they did it.

Study hard, work hard, be smart, and we welcome you to the arena.

Oh and by the way, this is not about race, because I've found plenty US born Chinese devs that suck and lazy.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#143

Post by rantwasp »

jsnenl52882hehd wrote: post #115

I see a lot of comments that miss the point. H1B visas have their problems and the system could be greatly improved by reforms. But that is not the issue. We are talking about suspension of ALL H1Bs and J visas! Whatever you feel about the problems with the current system, it is a net positive for the US. It has some pernicious negative effects, but ultimately our economy benefits more by being able to draw and integ…

yeah. this is not about reform. it’s about having another bullet point on some stupid list to please the voters. some of the same voters that were so disoriented to understand that obamacare is aca.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#144

Post by totalZero »

thomaspaine wrote: post #118

ITT: People criticizing the H1B program for reasons that have nothing to do with why it was suspended, or considering the fate of people/families who are already here on H1Bs. This is a pretty obvious move by the administration to discourage immigration, in any form. Could the H1B system be more equitable to workers, more efficient, less confusing, etc? Absolutely. But suspending H1Bs and green card applications like…

You shouldn't dismiss comments about H1Bs that are divorced from the perceived motivations of the White House. The effect of suspending H1B is not dependent upon the motivations of the decision. The decision is substantial. It has consequences and externalities that extend beyond whatever single motive we could ascribe to the White House.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#145

Post by mbrameld »

quineoa wrote: post #98
umvi wrote: post #78

There are 2 sides to every coin. It can be frustrating/demoralizing to American software developers as well, when they go to interview for a job, to see they are competing with an absolute flood of Indian and Chinese H1Bs. Then, when all of your interviewers are Chinese and Indian as well and you don't get the job, you sort of feel like the victim of favoritism and that you've been pushed out of your own country's in…

Is it ridiculous to consider that you fail your interviews because you’re not as good on a global level because some countries have better work ethic than others and better education systems than others even if America considers them to be “lower than”. Adobe and Microsoft CEOs went to the same high school and it wasn’t in the US ;) - jealous American student

I worked at a large financial institution in the US and here's how it worked there: They made heavy use of remote Indian contractors. When they needed to fill an on-site position, they wrote the job ad to require experience working on their proprietary software. No Americans had that experience unless they were already working there, so they could plausibly say they couldn't find qualified Americans and bring one of the offshore contractors in on an H1B. Realistically any experienced developer could do the job, it was standard enterprise Java. The Americans don't even have an opportunity to compete for that job despite having the requisite skills because of the games the company is allowed to play.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#146

Post by automated_toast »

guyzero wrote: post #127
automated_toast wrote: post #8

I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out.

Unbelievable how naked the anti-immigrant sentiment from you and numerous other commenters. I'm honestly shocked.

I am an immigrant. I came here because there was too much competition where I came from.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#147

Post by shawnz »

evgen wrote: post #31
btilly wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "without chaining it to a specific company" is critical. When the employee is chained to a company, the company has every incentive to lie then treat the employee poorly. When the employee is not chained to the company, the company has incentives to tell the truth then treat the employee well.

Unfortunately the reality is that there is absolutely no one who is interested in pushing a visa scheme like this. Employers are not interested in going through effort and paperwork for an employee who can jump ship for a better offer down the street once they are in the country. Other employees are not interested in increasing the supply of similar labor that will drive down their market value. The only ones who are…

Sure there is: anyone who wants to increase the availability of cheap skilled labour. Maybe it's true that companies want lock-in, but do you really need that if you can just increase the size of the pool instead? Also consider that increasing the amount of cheap skilled labour would increase the speed of economic growth, therefore giving better returns on the investments of America's wealthiest. Why wouldn't they want that?

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#148

Post by automated_toast »

marmada wrote: post #101
automated_toast wrote: post #8

I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out.

Have you considered being better at your job?

I tried. Not enough brains or ability.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#149

Post by hdivider »

Like any other nation, the United States is in a competition for top talent. People who have other viable choices -- who are in many cases also those who stand a high chance to create a ton of value in the US -- will now put the US lower down in the priority list.

As Victor Hwang put it [1]:

"While other countries fight a global war for top talent, America just packs up the tent.

Facts: - Immigrants start new businesses at twice the rate of native-born Americans. - Immigrants founded 44 of the 100 largest companies in America."

[1]: https://twitter.com/rainforestbook/status/127517996429236633...

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#150

Post by quicklime »

deegles wrote: post #54
gbronner wrote: post #5

H1B is terrible for the employees, and for those who work alongside them. Companies try to slow down green cards, and use H1Bs as virtual indentured servants. They also fake looking for Americans- in practice, many of the jobs are earmarked for a specific person, and you are wasting your time applying for it. Losing your job as an h1b requires you to leave almost immediately, which isn't great for anyone. Hopefully t…

It's hard to convey to a citizen how demoralizing being on an H1B is. If you get laid off, you have at best 30 days to find a new job and transfer your visa (from what I remember), otherwise you have to leave the country . H1B does not allow moonlighting. You can't start a startup by yourself. You can't take significant time off between jobs unless you transfer your visa and negotiate it. Your spouse likely won't be…

> If you get laid off, you have at best 30 days to find a new job and transfer your visa (from what I remember), otherwise you have to leave the country

I agree the terms are not good, but isn’t it 60 days?

https://cilawgroup.com/news/2017/02/24/uscis-creates-60-day-...

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