Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

developer.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 379 posts

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#301

Post by cpcallen »

samcat116 wrote: post #193
bitL wrote: post #9

It looks like iPadOS, so instead of adding more functions to iDevices, it seems like we'll be seeing more "dumbization" for macDevices :-(

Genuine question: Have they removed any features that make it less functional? There seems to be this belief that if it looks closer to iOS or iPadOS, then its “dumber” since in the past those product lines have been less capable than the Mac.

Every time I get an update (iTunes, iMovie, and now macOS and Finder) they make the minimum size of icons / thumbnails / UI elements larger, making it impossible to see as many on the screen at a time. Would you accept your code editor doubling the font size, making it possible to see only half as many lines of code?

Being able to see content is a feature.

Every new update brings more uniform, less visually distinctive buttons. When we went from black and white silhouettes of the original Macintosh System to colourful, pictographic icons of the Mac OS 9 era it was obviously an improvement in usability. Now we're back to monochrome silhouettes again.

Being able to find UI elements quickly is a feature.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#302

Post by vbezhenar »

dimmke wrote: post #65
mxcrossb wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that and the fact that tech website users basically complain about every UI change. Hacker News is full of people who think XFCE is the height of desktop experience. This is fundamentally different than apple’s core fan base who seem to like any change just for the sake of change.

I agree, any change will be frowned upon. It just annoys me that I feel like they're drawing the completely wrong conclusions. Apple was the company that dropped the headphone jack from their phone, shipped a laptop with only USB-C ports etc... they don't shy away from making big controversial decisions if they feel like it's good for them. If Apple was going to do this to MacOS, they'd have already done it. They wou…

I still don't have any USB-C devices or wireless headphones. May be in 10 years I'll change my opinion, but as for now, I still think that it was wrong to ditch USB-A and headphone jack.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#304

Post by quantummkv »

RivieraKid wrote: post #282
filleduchaos wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt "normal people" are losing much sleep over a virtual drive showing up in their Finder sidebars. It's only a "UX fail" if you're of the opinion that all platforms should work exactly the same way, and/or that UX paradigms that aren't what you already know are inherently wrong.

I'm not saying people are losing sleep over it but it's just bad UX. If you download and install an app, it shouldn't have the side-effect of a new disk appearing on your desktop. It's obvious, ask any UX designer if you don't believe me.

It's not bad UX. Apple provides three other app installation options that don't create a new disk on your desktop. The fact the the developers don't want to use those 3 methods is not Apple's fault. Blame the developers for that.

Now if Apple where to follow you suggestion and lockdown the app installation for better UX, there would be pitchforks everywhere. In fact, the pitchforks where out just last week for this issue.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#305

Post by 72deluxe »

filleduchaos wrote: post #297
72deluxe wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make sense. What is in / that is dangerous? Finder hides all of /etc and /bin and /usr for the "protection" of normal users, just like the default view for Windows Explorer under C:\Windows\System. But you can still change the contents on Windows, or see the directories in Terminal on macOS. Should they hide those directories when you use Terminal too? After all, /etc is important. Your reasoning would a…

> What is in / that is dangerous? ...it's...the root of your entire system? Are you really asking me why `rm -rf /` is a meme, or are you just being contrarian? > Finder hides all of /etc and /bin and /usr for the "protection" of normal users And you can change Finder's preferences to show those folders, like any actual macOS user that's qualified to be making changes to those folders should know. If you lack both th…

I'm not being contrarian, I am asking why I wouldn't be able to modify my filesystem. It's quite simple.

I can also do rm -rf ~/Documents or rm -rf /Applications or rm -rf /Library which has a similar devastating effect to my life/machine - should we block that too?

I can also fling a hammer into the screen and break the screen - should we put extra thick glass on the screen? I guess I have no business using a MacBook if it is possible to break the screen.

I can also pour liquid into the keyboard - should the keyboards be waterproof? I guess I am not qualified to use a Macbook and have no business using one if I spill a drink.

Using the keyboard is dangerous too because someone can type dangerous commands. Let's stop people using it. Only those with sufficient "curiosity" and those "qualified" should use it, right? How do I get "qualified"?

I am saying that as it is my machine, I get to decide which parts are dangerous. But I no longer can because someone the other side of the world has decided that I am cannot create a directory under /.

I do not ever modify /etc using Finder. Should I only be allowed to edit files under there using Finder or is Terminal permitted?

I guess if we follow this "lock down" and "only those qualified" route that you encourage, we'll soon see permission prompts to do anything anyway.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#306

Post by jtvjan »

Toutouxc wrote: post #291
jablan wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as an occasional MacOS user, it still pisses me off when I discover that maximize button is in fact full screen button.

Yeah, except it is NOT a "maximize" button and never was. macOS just doesn't do maximized apps the way Windows and some Linux DEs do.

Before Yosemite the green button worked like a maximize button, and you had a separate fullscreen button on the other side. Now you need to ⌥-click the green button to maximize.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#307

Post by the_other »

turndown wrote: post #220
_fzslm wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

strong disagree. MacOS and iPadOS will take cues from each other, but they will remain fundamentally different. MacOS for the old-timey folks who want root access and to be able to browse the file system, iPadOS for people who like having all for that abstracted away from them a-la iOS. neither is right or wrong, just caters to different kinds of people who prefer different ways of working.

IMO you vastly overestimate the care Apple has for "old-timey folks who want root access." They will remove your usecase in due time, when they decide to merge the two(MacOS and iPadOS).

They could have done that at any point in the last 10 years. They're not going to. "Operating systems" are the bit that makes the hardware work for the software, and because the hardware of "computers" is different from "portables", they'll continue to get different OS for a LONG time. Apple make mac-, i-, iPad-, tv- and watch- OS. That's five different OSs. The "bringing together" of macOS and iOS has nothing to do with unifying the OS over the hardware: it's about unifying the experience of interacting with digital representations of physical reality. Need a surface for displaying 2d media? Here's a "window" or an "app". Need to write a message to your friend? Here's a surface that accepts typed characters or your handwriting. Need to write some code? Here's a surface that accepts text and has some editing controls. Etc.

What's much more likely is that they'll find some new form factor of sensors and projectors (keys, screens, pointers, loudspeakers, data i/o) that does away with "computers" and "tablets" entirely. And that'll have its own widgetOS.

EDIT: punctuation.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#308

Post by 72deluxe »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #229
perryizgr8 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why do you want to create new directories at the root level? Why not? It's his system, he should be able to do whatever he likes. On most Linux I can rm -rf / all day long and nobody cares. What's the problem with creating root level directories?

I didn't say there was a problem with it; I just asked what the reason for wanting it was. > On most Linux I can rm -rf / all day long and nobody cares. So let me turn this around: Why do you think a system that doesn't make it difficult to completely destroy it with one command is a bad idea? "It's my system, I should be able to do whatever I like" is an answer, to be sure. (N.B.: in fact, "rm -rf /" won't work with…

DOS survived perfectly fine with deltree, whereupon it was possible to delete your file system.

The decision on which bits of the system I can destroy should be mine, not theirs. That's the issue. At the moment, I am getting pushed out of my machine, bit by bit. Every binary I run is getting report to Apple etc.

It is also possible to destroy the system by dropping your MacBook from a very great height. Should it be padded to cope with this eventuality?

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#309

Post by saagarjha »

robterrell wrote: post #97
aardshark wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's incredibly easy to bypass the stuff that makes a difference using the terminal. Try running dtrace without having to configure a bunch of settings and restarting your Mac. Then you have to change the settings back and restart again to go back to the way it was. It's a pain in the hole, and for basically no reason.

Isn't Instruments based on dtrace?

It is. dtrace outside of whatever Instruments needs to do its job is fairly crippled.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#310

Post by lwhi »

lwhi wrote: post #33
dimmke wrote: post #18

I have to be honest and go completely against the crowd here - but I think the UI updates are very good. They make the two OSes look cohesive but in a tasteful way. The extra padding in all of the UI is the only thing that I chafe at a little bit, it feels unnecessary. I really don't think they're going to put out touch screen Macs. So I'm not sure what there is to get upset about. I don't see any big functional chan…

The problem is, Apple have chosen consumers above professionals. It's been fairly obvious that this was their plan. Now it's been categorically confirmed.

To the downvoters .. hope that koolaid tastes good!
Post reply on HN