Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Importance of India

alexkolchinski.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 178 posts

Re: The Importance of India

#101

Post by teatree »

vijaybritto wrote: post #26
ezVoodoo wrote: post #15

But India is still a Semi Slavery society. The untouchables, anyone? The Hindu caste/social grouping system tells millions of people that they are contaminated and their fate is doomed upon birth. This is the most powerful racist/slavery/brain-washing machine that the human being has ever made, no? It is so hard to believe such brutal system still exist in human society. Yet, the country enforcing this claims to be t…

This. This is so true. India can never be a superpower until we are born inequal at birth! There will be growth only in a society which has some sort of equality. Anyone can look at the amount of upper castes in positions of power, land ownership share and executive positions in the country. You have to compare it with the population distribution among castes and you'll see the inequality immediately. The main proble…

What fantasy are you living in ? Do you think the US became a democracy because people were born equals ? No, they rose on the back of slaves and wars. Do you think the citizens of today's super powers, US & China are born equals ? Why is BLM a thing ? Why are Ugyhers and Buddhists struggling in China. Why is the Dalia lama living in exile ?

Caste is definitely problem in India today but it is being fought. There is 50% reservation in seats and government jobs. Private companies don't give a damn about castes. India definitely has MANY problems, caste, poverty, lack of education, corruption and many more. But it is a DEMOCRACY that believes in human rights and values liberty and is taking small steps towards those goals.

Have all parts of US developed and are as liberal as the Silicon Valley / California ? The south in India is progressing faster because of education and income, the north is progressing slower, but there is progress.

Your arguments make no sense.

Re: The Importance of India

#102

Post by vijaybritto »

setum wrote: post #93
vijaybritto wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. This is so true. India can never be a superpower until we are born inequal at birth! There will be growth only in a society which has some sort of equality. Anyone can look at the amount of upper castes in positions of power, land ownership share and executive positions in the country. You have to compare it with the population distribution among castes and you'll see the inequality immediately. The main proble…

What is the distribution of land ownership based in caste, any citation? > The main problem here is that it's not even in the mainstream public discourse cause the narrative is always set by the upper castes. mainstream public discourse is set by whoever can set it, it is free for all. In my understanding it is generally the left leaning literate class, talking for suppressed classes. True, most of them have descende…

> mainstream public discourse is set by whoever can set it, it is free for all

No, its not. The ones with social power only will be able to set the narrative in any society.

>Caste is largely getting uprooted from society, I don't see this bringing social equality.

This is not true. The system stays the same. We are in a modernised casteist society

>In truth, now there is a upper-caste among lower-case -- the early beneficiaries of the reservation with whom others in the lower caste can't compete.

The point of reservation is for representation. Not for competence or anything else. Again this is a classic upper caste narrative that is pushed repeatedly. Its not an economic upliftment program. Its only for representation.

Re: The Importance of India

#103

Post by praveen9920 »

teatree wrote: post #84
praveen9920 wrote: post #4

This is true in the case of manufacturing based economy, which world is currently now majored in. But with knowledge driven economy coming into picture, Having a huge population has any advantage? First world countries certainly have head start in this case, who are already attracting best brains from across world ( universities and companies) So, India will retain the importance only if it can sustain current brain…

Who were the "essential workers" during the lock down, other than medical professionals ? Did people horde Wikipedia articles or toilet paper ? Knowledge driven economy is a possibility in the future. Automation is definitely driving down jobs, but not to the extent we are imagining. Most production of the world is being done in China and other ASEAN countries by its billion+ population.

India should be targetting that future rather than past successes of other economies. That is exactly how China became successful by targeting the future needs before 30 years or so.

While China is investing a lot in AI and automation everywhere, do you think it make sense for India to invest in brick and mortar manufacturing sector?

Now that you raised the question of lockdown. Imagine the similar situation in 20 years in future, do you still expect "essential workers" to risk their lives or rather want some drones/robots(controlled by humans of course) doing the work on ground?

Re: The Importance of India

#104

Post by will4274 »

ra7 wrote: post #42
typon wrote: post #2

India being "a counterweight to the rise of authoritarianism in the 21st century" while Modi and BJP are in power. This is so misguided its funny.

Don't conflate encouraging cult-like following and at times divisive politics with authoritarianism. There are free and fair elections in India. In fact, Modi (and BJP) have lost several recent state elections and handed power over to the opposition. There are a ton of political parties, especially regional, that give BJP a run for their money a.k.a political pluralism. The reason Modi is running away with national e…

> Don't conflate encouraging cult-like following and at times divisive politics with authoritarianism

But, if I don't, how will I be able to call Trump a facist? /s

In all seriousness, your reply could have been written about the United States word for word. Some people simply see cult like following and divisive politics as being facism. For those people, your explanation explains nothing.

Re: The Importance of India

#105

Post by oliTwist23 »

ra7 wrote: post #42
typon wrote: post #2

India being "a counterweight to the rise of authoritarianism in the 21st century" while Modi and BJP are in power. This is so misguided its funny.

Don't conflate encouraging cult-like following and at times divisive politics with authoritarianism. There are free and fair elections in India. In fact, Modi (and BJP) have lost several recent state elections and handed power over to the opposition. There are a ton of political parties, especially regional, that give BJP a run for their money a.k.a political pluralism. The reason Modi is running away with national e…

Amen! Majority of the middle class is not so convinced by the BJP at national but against the corruption and elitism of the Congress. Atleast here in HN, ppl should be objective to make their own judgements!

Re: The Importance of India

#106

Post by setum »

vijaybritto wrote: post #67
joekunin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this was also part of the reason Buddhism didn't become the predominant belief system in India.

Yes, Buddhism cannot be tolerated by Brahmanism. Its simply outside the caste system that removes power from Brahmins. PS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Buddhists EDIT: https://medium.com/@ArainGang/hindu-persecution-of-buddhists...

Did you even read it. There were struggles with Brahmins, but those were political struggles, not existential.

Muslim invaders eliminated them forever from India. Read this section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Buddhists#Perse...

Re: The Importance of India

#107

Post by TriNetra »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #79
jayp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn’t Modi democratically elected — twice?

Yes. So? You can have a democratically-elected authoritarian. The authoritarian part is about how they govern, not how they get to power. (And, perhaps, how they stay in power. Venezuela is a good example of authoritarians, once in power, stacking the deck so that the next election keeps them in power. And as they become more unpopular, they continue to stack the deck farther and farther. I don't know if Modi and BJP…

The problem is that most of your understanding about Modi government is coming from western media which has repeatedly shown to be inherently bias against India [0] becoming strong. Part of the reason could be that India didn't join western club after Independence contrary to their expectations and chose to remain non-align (though it gravitated more toward USSR).

You wouldn't hear that though Modi has won federal elections twice, his party has lost many state elections during the same time. But he hasn't really done anything nefarious that could stop such losses. People has chosen Modi because at this stage, there's no alternative strong figure that can solve many India's problem. YOu'd hear about MOdi removing article 370 from Kashmir, the Citizen bill, but you won't get the details about the real reason of why those are needed to solve the problem India has been facing since independence but no prior gov attempted to implement them (despite agreeing in principles on multiple occasions) just because of vote-politics.

0: https://www.organiser.org/Encyc/2020/5/22/Foreign-Media-and-...

Re: The Importance of India

#108

Post by centrist »

I am taking a note of how some privileged individuals possibly from rich western countries or elite Indians conforming to a political ideology here are mocking and judging a country which has been looted, enslaved and intentionally left illiterate for centuries.

India is not perfect. But just to bring things into perspective, the cited "beacon" of liberal democracy, USA, didn't allow women to vote until as recent as a hundred years ago. The civil rights movement is not even a century old. Compared to that India has been independent for less than 72 years. Democracy takes time but results are permanent.

Now please take a note all the naysayers: Indians will strive and they will excel without any "great leaps" or "gulags" like they have in last 70 odd years. "Jantantra" or democracy is an integral part of India, and it will not falter in face of systemic racism by the west (and far east) or bullying by likes of China. There was a time when a whole bunch of people thought that democracy will never work in India or even worse, India as country will not exist because of its extreme diversity. The British even believed Indians are incapable to "govern themselves". But fast forward to present - they all have been proved wrong.

Democracy is slow, but that is the only and the universally accepted way forward for a diverse country like India.

Re: The Importance of India

#109

Post by teatree »

jayp wrote: post #21
typon wrote: post #2

India being "a counterweight to the rise of authoritarianism in the 21st century" while Modi and BJP are in power. This is so misguided its funny.

Wasn’t Modi democratically elected — twice?

Do you know BJP, the party Modi represents lost elections in most states of India ?

https://images.app.goo.gl/hGeeKMso9o99gxxA9

Re: The Importance of India

#110

Post by vijaybritto »

teatree wrote: post #101
vijaybritto wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. This is so true. India can never be a superpower until we are born inequal at birth! There will be growth only in a society which has some sort of equality. Anyone can look at the amount of upper castes in positions of power, land ownership share and executive positions in the country. You have to compare it with the population distribution among castes and you'll see the inequality immediately. The main proble…

What fantasy are you living in ? Do you think the US became a democracy because people were born equals ? No, they rose on the back of slaves and wars. Do you think the citizens of today's super powers, US & China are born equals ? Why is BLM a thing ? Why are Ugyhers and Buddhists struggling in China. Why is the Dalia lama living in exile ? Caste is definitely problem in India today but it is being fought. There is…

Unbelievable what privilege can do to a person!! Also I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove. You're presenting opinion in place of facts and common sense.

>Do you think the US became a democracy because people were born equals ?

Whats the point of this question even? How is the US and India the same? Whats the percentage of white and black people in the US? And whats the percentage of upper castes vs others in India? Like 15-85. How is that even comparable. You're pissed when someone says that a discriminatory system has to go away?

> Private companies don't give a damn about castes.

Change your name to a dalit surname and apply to all the companies in bangalore. Lets see how many responses you get!

Post reply on HN