Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies” • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#201

Post by manfredo » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

rufus_3 wrote: post #179

manfredo wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that "lawful content" includes things like explicit support for Nazism and the KKK (not 2020 "Trump is a Nazi" kind of allegations of Nazism, but actual Nazis). Even things like abstract calls for violence are protected under the First Amendment: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio I don't think people espousing this view understand the scope of what sites need to tolerate to comply. Wo…

How might a democracy suffer if those who control the common venues for voter's political dialogue are given a monopoly over setting the bounds of acceptable speech?

I think it's an extreme stretch to say that Reddit has a monopoly. Or even Reddit + Facebook + YouTube. My response would be to tell people to rediscover personal websites, mailing lists, and IRC. I'd be more concerned if ISPs, DNS providers, and payment processors start policing users' politics (which they have, recently, see the Carl Benjamin AKA "Sargon of Akkad" situation where payment processors threatened to cease business with Patreon unless they kicked him off the site). Being kicked off of Facebook or Reddit doesn't prevent someone from publishing their content. I've always told people if you want reliably get your message across, host your own website. It's not hard to pick up some basic HTML and CSS. It's only once the ability of people to publish their own messages that I get concerned.

As far as Reddit and Facebook go, understand that freedom of speech also means freedom from compelled speech. It's not just about being able to say what you want, it's about being able to not say the things you don't want to say. Making Section 230 contingent on hosting all legal content compels people so say a lot of things they don't want to say.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#202

Post by luckylion » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 5:19 PM UTC

elicash wrote: post #104

kache_ wrote: post #27

Reddit has been compromised with actors who do not have free speech in their best interest. The other day there was an illuminating ask reddit post about transexuals who decided to transition back and their experiences. That post got promptly removed by moderators; even though there was no hateful content within it at all. They effectively silenced the transexual population due to an ever so slight conflict of ideolo…

Reddits values aren't the same as yours. This isn't a bad thing. It's not like Reddit has monopoly powers. Some people want to belong to communities that have agreed-upon values.

But the community would be a subreddit, not the site reddit.com, which is far too heterogeneous to be considered some kind of community.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#203

Post by rabuse » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 5:19 PM UTC

defertoreptar wrote: post #66

abtom wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is super stupid. If they're so against the content why allow it to exist in the first place?

Whether they intended it this way or not, users will now be worried they're upvoting the "wrong" thing and will be less likely to vote unpopular opinions and political views, just in case.

Wrongthink is becoming a reality.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#204

Post by gnulinux » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

serf wrote: post #166

gnulinux wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to register zillions of forums and manage my passwords. I contribute to hundreds of subreddits. If reddit dies I'll find a replacement like reddit and move on.

>I don't want to register zillions of forums and manage my passwords. and I don't especially want the admins of any one site to be able to erase my entire existence off the net on a whim. single/token login from known net authority agents is common. I'd rather embrace that kind of thing than the idea that any one site should be our de facto forum and communications standard. I was reminded of this recently when a per…

I don't think any "irreplacable" data or conversation should be on reddit. If I lose my conversations about funny cats, or factorio, or why I love a programming language, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. I agree with you for critical stuff, I don't think they belong to reddit. But please understand that for consumers like me, reddit is an incredibly convenient social media. I can login now and spend hours talking about hundreds of different things. There is no way in hell I'll be able to register to so many different forums and not get frustrated.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#205

Post by braythwayt » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

qq11ww22ee33 wrote: post #196

braythwayt wrote: post #178

Every time we have a conversation about why Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit shouldn't be allowed to"censor" content, I ask what would become of Hacker News if it was not permitted to moderate spam or threads that do not follow the HN guidelines. I think it would quickly devolve into 4Chan. Almost all of the current community would decamp, and the trolls that infest other sites would take over.

"Devolve into"? This website is just the "sounds educated" arm of imageboard users. HN is entirely filled with right-wing to far-right sheltered techbros. Half the accounts here that are constantly complaining about "free speech" and "consequences to their actions" are really one bad day away from calling everyone they disagree with various slurs, and the other half are so insulated from any sort of actual injustice…

You are not wrong, but don't forget Sturgeon's Revelation: "90% of everything is CRUD."

What makes something valuable is the 10% of the thing that is not CRUD, and whatever measures put into place to make sure that the 90% CRUD doesn't poison the 10% that's worthwhile.

To me, that's having clear guidelines that are consistently applied through moderation.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#206

Post by root_axis » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 5:21 PM UTC

alacombe wrote: post #137

root_axis wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without section 230 protection it would be impossible for the site to stay open, so in effect you're saying sites that moderate user content should be shut down. Does that seem like an accurate interpretation of your position?

I'm fine with that. They decide to take a political stance, they shall deal with the legal consequence of their actions.

Ok. In my view that's unreasonable. Website operators should have the freedom to moderate their sites without fear of being shut down. Moderation is part of the product, they should have the freedom to create online communities that cater to specific audiences, including with respect to political partisanship if that is where their values lie. It seems unreasonable that all the users that enjoy the site as is should lose access to it because of some users who disagree with the site's moderation policies.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#207

Post by jlawson » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

braythwayt wrote: post #178

Every time we have a conversation about why Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit shouldn't be allowed to"censor" content, I ask what would become of Hacker News if it was not permitted to moderate spam or threads that do not follow the HN guidelines. I think it would quickly devolve into 4Chan. Almost all of the current community would decamp, and the trolls that infest other sites would take over.

For structural reasons this comparison makes no sense.

HN has one homepage; one sub-community. Reddit has an infinite number of subreddits. Similar for facebook.

Even with no moderation, in no case would anyone be exposed to content that wasn't posted and allowed in a community that they deliberately subscribed to.

Reddit polices what kinds of communities are allowed. HN is one kind of community.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#208

Post by rabuse » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

godzillabrennus wrote: post #15

There is an alternative to the group think/hive mind called https://gab.com/ but it’s also a cesspool or horrible people sharing horrible ideas. Not sure what makes sense.

I like the ability to see the discourse from all sides of the spectrum (reddit, voat, worldstar, etc.) I'd rather not have the platform dictate what they "think" is going to offend me.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#209

Post by surround » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

kache_ wrote: post #27

Reddit has been compromised with actors who do not have free speech in their best interest. The other day there was an illuminating ask reddit post about transexuals who decided to transition back and their experiences. That post got promptly removed by moderators; even though there was no hateful content within it at all. They effectively silenced the transexual population due to an ever so slight conflict of ideolo…

> Do you think there was a way for you avoid this path? Like more understanding parents, other friends, another therapist? Or was it unavoidable?

>> It was a combination of things, so I can't say for sure what could have prevented this. More understanding parents definitely would have helped. Other perspectives online, as well. Detransitioners frequently get shut down on the internet, as their experiences are often labeled "transphobia." Which is utter bullshit, in my opinion. Perhaps if I had read a similar story as my own those years back, I would have had second thoughts.

https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/h9ctho/serious_a...

Ironically, the AskReddit mods contributed to this problem by removing the post.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#210

Post by the-dude » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 5:25 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #171

klodolph wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take on quarantined subreddits is that it’s just a tool to remove certain communities from the mobile app so they don’t get in trouble with Apple / Google (mostly Apple, I’m sure).

And also how to deal with communities that should absolutely not be spilling over into the rest of Reddit. Reddit, I think rightfully, quarantines a lot of ED related subreddits.

What does ED stand for?