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Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

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Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#51

> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

Money not being an issue can still happen: See Valve, which have a money printing machine in Steam, along with a few long living, lucrative games. Work on Half Life 3 never really stopped , and we had a 13 year wait between Half Life Alyx and Half Life 2, episode 2. Sources say that the internal standards for a Half Life 3 are so high, it led to many restarts and a lot of work being thrown away.

But the real reason we don't have games that run as long as Deus Ex is that the cost of reworking what was already there have exploded since those days. If you are predicting a 3 year release cycle(not unheard of to this day at large publishers), and you are delayed by 2 extra years, the hardware you are targeting is different, and the amount of art you have to upgrade or completely remake is crazy compared to Deus Ex. With teams being far larger than they were to meet a 3 year plan, marshaling a modern AAA game team to rework large parts of a game has little to do with managing to do the same with a team from the late 20th century. A linear increase in team size gets you a geometric increase in coordination costs.

That said, we still have small teams that might work on a game for a very long time, but they have to aim far lower technically, or in scope. You can make a beautiful, shorter game with a small team, like Outer Wilds. You can also make a 2d game, and tweak your game to perfection, like Stardew Valley. At those sizes, saying "when it's done", and letting yourself change direction and scope is fine. But try that with the Red Dead Redemption 2 team, trying to be at the forefront of everything. Without a far more rigid plan, you can go into a Duke Nukem Forever spiral (and DNF was a far smaller team!)

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#52

> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

One reason it can't happen today is because it never ends well. Ion Storm was a huge disaster; it produced Deus Ex , but it also produced Daikatana , one of the truly legendary bad games. The studio mismanaged itself so badly that by 2001 the whole thing had collapsed except for Warren Spector's team in Austin, who soldiered on for a few more years before giving up.

True. But also true that that's what it takes to release groundbreaking stuff. Failure is a very possible outcome.

I think the price of Daikatana is well worth the existence of Deus Ex.

Ofc no investor would ever take a risk like that these days. Sad reality for me as a consumer.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#53
post #48

> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

The issue these days isn't so much time nor money but rather the difficulty in standing out from the pack when so much of game mechanics has already been discovered. Each breakthrough in technology has been followed by iconic "first of it's era" games, eg: - Mario 64, Crash Bandicoot and others with their demonstration of how to translate a platformer to a 3D world - Tomb Raider with it's "even the scenery can be exp…

>> I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

> The solution to that is to look outside of the traditional gaming paradigm.

I don't think indie & VR gimmicks are the solution to lack of games that are close to the original Deus Ex. It's not revered for original superb mechanics; most of everything it does was done before. It's that it put them all together and did so many things right to create a polished, immersive experience with a compelling story (rather footed in reality as opposed to all out scifi/fantasy), strong plot focus (as opposed to disconnected mass-produced side quests), rich level design, lots of choice and player freedom, great music, replay value..

Hardly anyone is doing that. But, evidently, a lot of gamers want that.

> If you're only looking at games like Deus Ex then it could be easy to miss all the other stuff going on.

I just don't see anything that really compels me. Stuff is going on, and it's mostly not worth my time (or does a terrible job marketing itself).

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#54

> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

It really depends on the developer. Look at Star Citizen. Self funded to 300 million dollars and still it seems to be stuck in development hell, with Chris Roberts creating yet more feature creep.

I say this as a fan of the game but even I can concede that he wants to make the ultimate space simulation game which just isn't feasible with how long it would take in reality.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#55

> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

Anything close in what regards? There are amazing games coming out all the time.

At the time, DE was mindblowing and revolutionary. There had never been anything like it.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#56

> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

We get games in that spirit once every couple of years, actually. Prey (2017) was a fine successor to the Deus Ex tradition, for example.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#57

For the 15th anniversary Warren Spector, Sheldon Pacotti and Chris Norden got together to replay the game.[1] Spector and Looking Glass creators also had a replay for System Shock's 25th anniversary last year. [2] Deus Ex made me read "The Man Who Was Thursday". I was slightly disappointed that the other book "Jacob's Shadow" was made-up for the game. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaJ18p4QH2Q [2] https://www.yo…

Sheldon wrote most of the dialogue and is a novelist. He also has degrees in math and English from MIT and Harvard, respectively. Rare to have that background for a writer at a game company today. So much prescient dialogue, here's the game talking about the EU/globalists today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxWlJ_muK0I

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#58

> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

We get games in that spirit once every couple of years, actually. Prey (2017) was a fine successor to the Deus Ex tradition, for example.

Prey was an excellent game that I really enjoyed. To me it's not quite the same, since it's not as dense with people/NPCs. The only games that I can recall really coming close to Deus Ex are... Deus Ex Human Revolution and Mankind Divided.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#59

> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

It really depends on the developer. Look at Star Citizen. Self funded to 300 million dollars and still it seems to be stuck in development hell, with Chris Roberts creating yet more feature creep. I say this as a fan of the game but even I can concede that he wants to make the ultimate space simulation game which just isn't feasible with how long it would take in reality.

Someone's going to be first on that front, it's more attainable today than ever. Elite Dangerous is doing space legs + combat next year.
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