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Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

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Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#601

Post by hintymad »

scarface74 wrote: post #540
hintymad wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this will probably be flagged or voted down, but at least please understand that I truly want to see people in the US get better and more equal. Here it goes: if the US wants to invest in local talent, the US had better invest heavily in education. And I'm not talking about an-iPad-per-kid kind of investment, but investment to hire great teachers, lots of them, to public schools to the point that tutoring scho…

I’m going to go off the rails more. You can’t reform the education system in a vacuum without dealing with larger societal problems that affect the US. The war on drugs - have unfairly targeted minorities breaking up families and when they get out of jail, its harder to get a job because of their criminal record. No matter how good the education system is, if the students home life is unstable, education suffers. Gov…

Not in California. The State is responsible for allocating education fund, with a few exception.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#602

Post by hintymad »

comex wrote: post #510
john_moscow wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is the reason why we need to rethink our current culture of censorship and social media outrage. It explains a non-trivial logical connection, showing how something that could look unpopular from the surface, would pay off in the long run. Except you cannot make comments like this in public anymore. Because all it takes is an angry mob leader shouting "%USERNAME% is %CLICHE%ist" and that's it. Your emplo…

I don't see anything in the parent comment that's even remotely controversial. Almost everyone across the political spectrum agrees that we should spend more on education, at least in the abstract. There's plenty of disagreement on the details, but I don't see anything in the comment that stakes out a strong position on any of the major issues. Perhaps I'm missing something.

I was actually arguing that we should spend differently, not necessarily more, in our education system.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#603

Post by hintymad »

david38 wrote: post #596
hintymad wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this will probably be flagged or voted down, but at least please understand that I truly want to see people in the US get better and more equal. Here it goes: if the US wants to invest in local talent, the US had better invest heavily in education. And I'm not talking about an-iPad-per-kid kind of investment, but investment to hire great teachers, lots of them, to public schools to the point that tutoring scho…

Yes, put money into edu but that’s very different from giving teachers more money. Teachers do relatively little. The major influence is parents. You need to change the cultural mindset. You need to build more colleges. Computer science programs are already maxed out. You need more professors.

I think both are critical. Kids naturally listen to their teachers, probably because they treat their teachers as authorities. Plus, teaching is a profession, a profession that demands deep expertise. A quite amusing example: parents try to teach their 7-year old fractions, and only find themselves yelling and kids crying hard. Yet when a teacher in Russian School of Mathematics teaches the same concepts, kids just understand the concept without any problem, and start to enjoy the learning process.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#604

Post by scarface74 »

hintymad wrote: post #601
scarface74 wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m going to go off the rails more. You can’t reform the education system in a vacuum without dealing with larger societal problems that affect the US. The war on drugs - have unfairly targeted minorities breaking up families and when they get out of jail, its harder to get a job because of their criminal record. No matter how good the education system is, if the students home life is unstable, education suffers. Gov…

Not in California. The State is responsible for allocating education fund, with a few exception.

33% of education funding comes from the local government.

https://lao.ca.gov/Education/EdBudget/Details/281

https://ed100.org/uploads/images/shares/CA-19-20-budget.png

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#605

Post by fredfoobar »

Thorentis wrote: post #444
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #278

All data indicate there is no shortage of US Citizens that could fill STEM positions and that H1-B holders on average make well below market rate. Outright ban is the wrong tool and I can't imagine that this is a reasoned policy response to a well understood abuse of wage-arbitrage. The right answer would be to mandate comparable wages for H1-B immigrants as for median employee with the same experience/tenure etc...…

If there is no shortage of US citizens that can fill STEM roles, then the H1-B program has no reason to take in STEM workers. Its purpose is to fill skill shortages. There is clearly no skills shortage, therefore the ban, while perhaps overkill, is not unjustified. Companies simply use it to get cheap labor.

When was the last time you hired to grow a team in SV?

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#606

Post by runawaybottle »

fredfoobar wrote: post #594
runawaybottle wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, you're telling me that they're gonna pay the same amount they'd pay for a local employee PLUS the H1-B overhead, just to hire a foreign worker? For the most part, sure, it should be cost prohibitive. I think companies should go out and find the best talent, they should try to do it locally, and if they can’t, paying the little overhead is nothing when you realize you just filled the role with world class talent…

Most of the companies you speak of are multi-national companies providing their services world-wide, why should google, a service that is offered to the whole world ONLY have employees who're born in America, while their service is used across the world? Lets be honest, a country's wealth is determined by how widespread the customer base is for the goods and services that originate within it. Economies of a majority…

Nothing is stopping Google from being an international company headquartered in France. France has a lot of social welfare rules that dictate a safety net for it’s own citizens such that every company in their realm must adhere to if they want to benefit from everything France has to offer.

America has a lot to offer, and part of the tax is you must support American workers first.

If India and China is the better place to work, better salaries, better consumer market, better infrastructure, better freedoms, better everything - feel free to operate from those places and respect the offerings of the people of that country, and please, put them first.

But don’t take advantage of the offerings of a place like Germany, while taking advantage of the lack of worker rights in China, while paying taxes in the Caribbean. This is taking advantage of every loophole imaginable.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#607

Post by dang »

dvtrn wrote: post #42
solarkraft wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even if you're a nationalist Not if you're a racist, though.

Is this being greyed down because folks just don’t want to consider the possibility that straight up racism might be just as much a part of this or did it touch a nerve for some parties who saw themselves getting called out?

It was probably downvoted because it was a reflexive flamewar style comment rather than a thoughtful, substantive one.

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#608

Post by MisterBastahrd »

tekknik wrote: post #574
perfmode wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The prison industrial complex is a term we use to describe the overlapping interests of government and industry that use surveillance, policing, and imprisonment as solutions to economic, social and political problems.

Yea so this doesn’t clear it up at all. Are you suggesting we start legalizing things, so that instead of going to jail people are treated for mental health problems if someone robs a house or commits murder? Why can’t people just not commit crimes?

Why aren't all former penal colonies full of criminals? Maybe it's because there are a lot of crimes that are situational. For truly violent offenders who refuse to be rehabilitated? Keep them away from everyone else, including other prisoners. For everyone else though? We should be figuring out what they lack and help them find it.

The reason we DON'T do that is because state prisons are glorified slave rackets. The very existence of for-profit prisons is an obscenity that will be seen as being as barbaric as slavery in the long run.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#609

Post by solarkraft »

dang wrote: post #607
dvtrn wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this being greyed down because folks just don’t want to consider the possibility that straight up racism might be just as much a part of this or did it touch a nerve for some parties who saw themselves getting called out?

It was probably downvoted because it was a reflexive flamewar style comment rather than a thoughtful, substantive one. " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

There's something to that, it's admittedly not hugely insightful. Is it "reflexive", "flamewar style"? I wouldn't classify it as such, since the option presented is an in my opinion a real possibility. It may be a bit harsh and inciting for a rational discussion however, so maybe vsareto's subtlety is more appropriate here.

Generally I'm happy this place is moderated strictly to keep the discussion civil. That there doesn't seem to be a will (there are no dead comments under mine, as far as I can see) to allow a direct discussion on american racism feels a little weird, but is over all understandable.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#610

Post by somurzakov »

hintymad wrote: post #446
codelord wrote: post #313

Disclaimer: I'm an immigrant. There are companies like Cognizant/InfoSys/Tata/... whose business model is based on abusing the H1B system, and that's obviously wrong and I'm quite surprised they get away with it. I'm not defending that. To those who broadly argue against skilled visas, consider this: Most H1B immigrants are between 20-30 age range. The prime age to join the workforce. Think how much investment you ha…

I know this will probably be flagged or voted down, but at least please understand that I truly want to see people in the US get better and more equal. Here it goes: if the US wants to invest in local talent, the US had better invest heavily in education. And I'm not talking about an-iPad-per-kid kind of investment, but investment to hire great teachers, lots of them, to public schools to the point that tutoring scho…

problem is not in teachers. Problem is parents. Yeah parents.

Good parents with good parenting skills raise good kids. Bad parents/single parents - it is much harder to raise kids and give them good education.

if you want reforms - you need to adopt Scandinavian policies in America (high taxes, universal healthcare, universal childare, universal K-12, universal college system) - that way it will be easier to raise well educated kids

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