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Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

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Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#441

Post by fzeroracer »

2ion wrote: post #414
rantwasp wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a textbook example of when someone should lose their job on the spot

Because somebody's feelings were hurt? That's a useless argument to make against a professional who's basically effective at his job and very useful to society. The US is useless at civil rights these days precisely because it's all between "my feels" and straight out looting. Conditioned knee jerking all over the place.

It seems in this story the only person who had their feelings potentially get in the way of the job is the paramedic, no? There's no reason for them to be asking such questions while doing their job.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#442

Post by Thorentis »

awillen wrote: post #22
Forgeties79 wrote: post #4

This has gotten very old very fast (beyond the obvious cruelty). I have several friends who keep watching their colleagues just have to up and leave over this and it’s causing a ton of issues for businesses that employ folks on work visas in general. It’s just disruptive to be disruptive/feed the base.

It's just silly... even if you're a nationalist, isn't the prospect of bringing over talented people from foreign countries to work in America and help our companies profit plus deprive their home countries of their skills a really, really good thing?

Profit isn't the only important thing in life. If there are skills lacking in the market, they will eventually be learnt. Filling demand for CRUD app creation engineers instantly, is just another example of our instant-gratification culture manifest in business.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#444

Post by Thorentis »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #278

All data indicate there is no shortage of US Citizens that could fill STEM positions and that H1-B holders on average make well below market rate. Outright ban is the wrong tool and I can't imagine that this is a reasoned policy response to a well understood abuse of wage-arbitrage. The right answer would be to mandate comparable wages for H1-B immigrants as for median employee with the same experience/tenure etc...…

If there is no shortage of US citizens that can fill STEM roles, then the H1-B program has no reason to take in STEM workers. Its purpose is to fill skill shortages. There is clearly no skills shortage, therefore the ban, while perhaps overkill, is not unjustified. Companies simply use it to get cheap labor.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#445

Post by noncoml »

downerending wrote: post #437
noncoml wrote: post #79

Xenophobia is a bitch. A few years ago I experienced an atrial fibrillation while exercising, so I called an ambulance, as I didn't know what was happening to me and thought that that was the end. Once in the ambulance the paramedic started asking me where I am from and if I came in on one of "those visas". I was afraid I was about to die, and this fucker was being xenophobic.

I wasn't there, but this sounds more like cluelessness than anything else. I could imagine making small talk like this to keep someone's mind off of their pain or anxieties. Did it really seem like the gal or guy was hating on you?

I get asked where I am from all the time, because of my strange accent. However I've never before been asked about what visa I came in on.

The way he talked about the Visas, gave me the impression of someone who has been conditioned to believe that "those Visas" are evil.

Or maybe I completely misread it, and he was just trying to make conversation as you said, to calm me down. But choosing the Visa subject seemed quite odd. Usually when I mention my home country people chose a subject like history, mythology, holidays or current affairs.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#446

Post by hintymad »

codelord wrote: post #313

Disclaimer: I'm an immigrant. There are companies like Cognizant/InfoSys/Tata/... whose business model is based on abusing the H1B system, and that's obviously wrong and I'm quite surprised they get away with it. I'm not defending that. To those who broadly argue against skilled visas, consider this: Most H1B immigrants are between 20-30 age range. The prime age to join the workforce. Think how much investment you ha…

I know this will probably be flagged or voted down, but at least please understand that I truly want to see people in the US get better and more equal. Here it goes: if the US wants to invest in local talent, the US had better invest heavily in education. And I'm not talking about an-iPad-per-kid kind of investment, but investment to hire great teachers, lots of them, to public schools to the point that tutoring schools become a joke, investment to set up a system that can fire bad teachers -- the kinds who ask students in grade 9 physics class "which is heavier, pound or kilogram". Investment to ensure that even the poorest area can have public schools that are at least as good as KIPP. Investment to really keep students in their discomfort zone so they can learn every day. Investment that builds a system that really pushes the limit of every student instead of being complacent with the craps like "Kids can discover most math by themselves" or "left no kids behind" or "challenging math is systemic bias against the poor" or "math is racism" -- maybe they are, but then they are because our governments offer such low-quality education that family with means can get ahead by going to soul-sucking tutoring schools.

Education is the key to local talent, and is the key to equality. Yet, what has the US done to make our education better?

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#447

Post by Thorentis »

noncoml wrote: post #429
2ion wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because somebody's feelings were hurt? That's a useless argument to make against a professional who's basically effective at his job and very useful to society. The US is useless at civil rights these days precisely because it's all between "my feels" and straight out looting. Conditioned knee jerking all over the place.

I agree with you. Unless it can be proven that he provided sub-par care because I was a foreigner, which I am pretty sure that he didn't, then there is absolutely no case for losing his job, or even be warned. It's good to talk about our feelings and try to be considered to each other, but we should put facts and reason above feelings, which are not objective, otherwise we are doomed as society. Having said that, if…

Companies only care about feelings because of profit, not because they actually care about the social issues. Hurting customer feelings = potential loss of customer = loss of profit.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#448

Post by on_and_off »

pnako wrote: post #404
on_and_off wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to the USA on an H1B visa 2 years ago. On a high salary and with the promise of being sponsored for a green card. I got my green card just before covid impacted the USA and still have a pretty high salary (in the same range of my US born colleagues). I already had a great job in my home country, I was not going to come to the USA to be paid a pittance. Yeah, there is abuse of the green card system but it is in…

There is an issue with 'diversity in tech' and, among other things, under-representation of African-Americans in STEM. So why are the big tech corporations that are constantly virtue signalling about Black Lives Matter and social justice not simply training American engineers (not specifically black, but people coming from poor socioeconomic backgrounds, which would definitely include many African-Americans). Why do…

>America does not lack people, it has good universities

I am not american so not 100% certain, but from what I can see, the public education system in the USA is not that great and universities are way too costly compared with the rest of the world.

I 100% agree that there is a huge diversity in tech problem.

Not all of that problem is about hiring POCs either, a female friend of mine had to flee a job because none of her colleagues would accept to have a woman as their manager (that's in 2020 in the SV..)

>So why are the big tech corporations that are constantly virtue signalling about Black Lives Matter

You are answering yourself, virtue signaling is cheap. I can talk for my own company. They were happy enough to talk about the importance of BLM, but less interested in taking concrete steps.

I fully believe that companies should encourage their engineers to participate in mentorship programs. I highly doubt that it would magically solve systemic racism but it would be a relatively cheap way to find and hire junior engineers and good PR.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#449

Post by diebeforei485 »

pkaye wrote: post #165
alexandercrohde wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a while I wasn't sure if this was just some "talking point." Then one day, on a hiking meetup, I met a guy who was ranting about his job that was to write "oddly hyper-specific job descriptions that might seem to make no sense" to bring in cheaper h1b candidates. So yeah, it's a problem.

Years back I had a college friend who was hired on an OPT visa. When they wanted to convert his visa to H1B (I think) they kept getting suitable candidates so had to rewrite the requirements so its only suited to him. He confided this to me as he felt bad but really needed that job.

The job description stuff doesn't have much to do with H-1B's - it has to do with green cards.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#450

Post by on_and_off »

vbtemp wrote: post #238
on_and_off wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to the USA on an H1B visa 2 years ago. On a high salary and with the promise of being sponsored for a green card. I got my green card just before covid impacted the USA and still have a pretty high salary (in the same range of my US born colleagues). I already had a great job in my home country, I was not going to come to the USA to be paid a pittance. Yeah, there is abuse of the green card system but it is in…

Couple important points: 1. SV/FAANGs, like elite colleges, only hire some very small percentage of people who apply. Many people who are perfectly well qualified and have successful careers otherwise get denied employment. 2. The market cap of these FAANGs is in the trillions . Between talent and capital, there's literally no problem they can't solve (they can solve problems about cyber bullying, trolling, etc but t…

1 - I am the first one to complain about our broken hiring practices, but just because you get a first interview does not mean you are qualified for the job.

2/3/4 -> FAANG have a ton of money but no incentive at all to spend it on philanthropy. I wish it was not the case, but their only job is to make their investors happy.

3 - is it dishonest ? For sure there are some kids in SV, LA,etc that could work in tech if they got the education but the thing is, they didn't. Also, local talent is never going to compare to the global one.

I would love to see laws pushing FAANG and co to invest in philanthropic causes. Heck, I would not even mind if this was based on taxation. But cutting H1B is not going to solve any of these problems.

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