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First Arm Macs: 13-Inch MacBook Pro, Redesigned iMac; Late 2020 or Early 2021

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51–60 of 72 posts

Re: First Arm Macs: 13-Inch MacBook Pro, Redesigned iMac; Late 2020 or Early 2021

#51
post #38

I can't wait to see how the price and power compares to the Intel Macs.

I expect the price will not budge at all.

Apple has target margin levels, they may increase slightly but most of the savings will go to customers. Apple understands that most customers can’t justify the higher cost of Macs despite the additional value, they will for sure attempt to use ARM CPUs to grow Mac market share.

Re: First Arm Macs: 13-Inch MacBook Pro, Redesigned iMac; Late 2020 or Early 2021

#53
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect the price will not budge at all.

Apple has target margin levels, they may increase slightly but most of the savings will go to customers. Apple understands that most customers can’t justify the higher cost of Macs despite the additional value, they will for sure attempt to use ARM CPUs to grow Mac market share.

How does that work with the ARM iPhones being as expensive as the Intel Macs?

Re: First Arm Macs: 13-Inch MacBook Pro, Redesigned iMac; Late 2020 or Early 2021

#54
post #50

> Starting in 2021, Kuo says that all new Mac models will be equipped with Apple processors, and that it will take 12 to 18 months for Apple to transition to an all-Arm lineup. So there's not going to be a Xeon Mac Pro in 2023? Are they just going to drop the Mac Pro or do they actually have a rivaling ARM processor?

Does it really matter for the Pro line, if there will be something that gives Xeon run for its money? Say twice as fast or twice as many cores for the same price? Once Pro on ARM is out, and it probably will be the last in a lineup, there will be a lot of software with native ARM support. At that point (unless there is some INSANE advantage that Xeons would give), it is pretty much given that it will become ARM. Question is only in how quickly Apple can come up with something that is noticeable beating Xeons performance-wise.

Re: First Arm Macs: 13-Inch MacBook Pro, Redesigned iMac; Late 2020 or Early 2021

#55
post #3

Possibly stupid question - does Apple switching to ARM mean the death of Bootcamp?

I think the more interesting possibility is that one may have to jailbreak a Macbook Pro to run your own apps and/or OS.

Basically already a thing with SIP.

Re: First Arm Macs: 13-Inch MacBook Pro, Redesigned iMac; Late 2020 or Early 2021

#56

I wonder what docker looks like on iARM. I assume some level of x86 emulation provided by OSX that VirtualBox will run on top

Docker on ARM Linux doesnt use x86 emulation, I'm not sure why Docker on ARM macOS would.

edit: I am aware not all Docker containers run on aarch64. But that has been changing already, and presumably would accelerate if Apple goes all in on ARM.

Re: First Arm Macs: 13-Inch MacBook Pro, Redesigned iMac; Late 2020 or Early 2021

#57
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect the price will not budge at all.

Apple has target margin levels, they may increase slightly but most of the savings will go to customers. Apple understands that most customers can’t justify the higher cost of Macs despite the additional value, they will for sure attempt to use ARM CPUs to grow Mac market share.

Apple has ~$100B cash in the bank. If they wanted to increase market share by lowering prices, they could.

Re: First Arm Macs: 13-Inch MacBook Pro, Redesigned iMac; Late 2020 or Early 2021

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possible so, unless Apple makes the ARM chip run Intel code. Windows is overrated now and only Windows 10 matters at this point in time. For $150 you can buy a cheap Intel based PC laptop with Windows 10 on it. I think Bootcamp might work for ARM based Linux and the ARM version of Windows 10. At least Raspberry PIs that are ARM based can run those.

Would Intel be able to use patents to prevent them from doing x86 emulation?

They did so to block NVIDIA so quite likely.

Re: First Arm Macs: 13-Inch MacBook Pro, Redesigned iMac; Late 2020 or Early 2021

#59
post #25

Can anyone explain why Apple would be dropping Intel and doing ARM instead, instead of just, you know, doing their own thing ? I find it hard to believe either that ARM is the (globally optimal) pinnacle of instruction set / CPU architecture possible, and that a $1tn company can afford to spin up its own CPU production line (competitor to Intel, a $250b company) but not its own CPU design department (competitor to AR…

Because Apple's business is not doing "their own thing".

Apple's business is taking something that already is proven to work, and integrate it into something that makes money.

ARM is proven to work. It was designed for phones, tablets, routers, everything.

That means you could go to a factory like TSMC and they can reuse in excess of 95% of their hardware chip templates. You can reuse work done in iOS hardware too.

We are talking about freaking less than 10 nanometer scale designs!! The transistor's layout at those scales is not even square but calculated with quantum effects with very complex software, and retouched by hand with very expensive feedback using electron and X-rays microscopes.

That also means you can reuse the compilers that already exist, the transpilers and the toolchain in general.

Hardware designs need literally years of testing in very sophisticated machines(supercomputers) before you use them. Remember that if you make a mistake your entire die is wrong, million of dollars go to the toilet. And you always make mistakes before the design is mature.

It is not software that you could update easily and cheaply.

If you were to do your own thing , your chips would cost you 100x to 1000x to make just in money. It would also cost you orders of magnitude in time to market.

Of course a $trillion company can waste money away(until there is no more money left) but probably they want their money to give profit and create wealth instead of consuming it.

Re: First Arm Macs: 13-Inch MacBook Pro, Redesigned iMac; Late 2020 or Early 2021

#60
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has target margin levels, they may increase slightly but most of the savings will go to customers. Apple understands that most customers can’t justify the higher cost of Macs despite the additional value, they will for sure attempt to use ARM CPUs to grow Mac market share.

Apple has ~$100B cash in the bank. If they wanted to increase market share by lowering prices, they could.

It's closer to $200B.
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