Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year • Hacker News Board

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#501

Post by aianus » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 1:10 AM UTC

smnrchrds wrote: post #178

ycombonator wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all eventually come back to USA after gaining a foothold in Canada. TN Visas. Majority of TN Visa users are immigrants into Canada.

This sounds like a massive exaggeration to me. Do you have any citation to back up these claims?

Over 50% of Toronto, at least, is born outside of Canada and even then immigrants were overrepresented in my CS cohort at Waterloo in 2014.

So it seems plausible -- but these aren't people cynically exploiting Canada as a hop on the way to the US, they're people who were born outside Canada but moved to Canada as children and grew up Canadian.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#502

Post by diebeforei485 » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 1:17 AM UTC

amznthrowaway5 wrote: post #490

yibg wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also (if we leave aside the abusers like InfoSys etc), employers pay an additional cost for H1B visa workers (comparable salary + the cost of sponsoring the visa itself). Presumably this means there is a net benefit to the American company doing the hiring to be hiring these H1B workers. Seems like a win-win situation here all around. If the concern is with abuse, then let's crack down on that.

HN needs to stop pretending only companies like Infosys and Tata abuse the h1b. Even big tech companies like Amazon and Facebook hire h1b workers so they can create sweatshop environments. H1b workers are afraid of being deported if they do not perform well, and a certain percentage of workers are forced to be on the PIP plan every year in the stack ranking. Can even lead to suicides or suicide attempts. Ex: https://…

Sure- but there is never going to be a perfect policy. Facebook Engineering typically hires people with degrees from great programs, or great prior experience.

But most of the "IT" work done by InfoSys and others are things that can practically be done by Americans as well. It would take training, but it wouldn't take a degree from a top university.

So - companies like InfoSys and Tata are a good place to start.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#503

Post by john_moscow » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 1:17 AM UTC

hintymad wrote: post #446

codelord wrote: post #313

Disclaimer: I'm an immigrant. There are companies like Cognizant/InfoSys/Tata/... whose business model is based on abusing the H1B system, and that's obviously wrong and I'm quite surprised they get away with it. I'm not defending that. To those who broadly argue against skilled visas, consider this: Most H1B immigrants are between 20-30 age range. The prime age to join the workforce. Think how much investment you ha…

I know this will probably be flagged or voted down, but at least please understand that I truly want to see people in the US get better and more equal. Here it goes: if the US wants to invest in local talent, the US had better invest heavily in education. And I'm not talking about an-iPad-per-kid kind of investment, but investment to hire great teachers, lots of them, to public schools to the point that tutoring scho…

This comment is the reason why we need to rethink our current culture of censorship and social media outrage.

It explains a non-trivial logical connection, showing how something that could look unpopular from the surface, would pay off in the long run. Except you cannot make comments like this in public anymore. Because all it takes is an angry mob leader shouting "%USERNAME% is %CLICHE%ist" and that's it. Your employer fires you, your friends abandon you, you are socially bankrupt in an instant.

There are many bright people our there with great perspectives to share. Except they have to maintain radio silence, because they are not willing to take that risk. So the only voices to be heard are the most extreme ones that have nothing to lose.

I sincerely hope we can overcome this and get people to discuss problems and work together on solving them before our civilization sinks into medieval barbarism.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#504

Post by perfmode » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

hintymad wrote: post #446

codelord wrote: post #313

Disclaimer: I'm an immigrant. There are companies like Cognizant/InfoSys/Tata/... whose business model is based on abusing the H1B system, and that's obviously wrong and I'm quite surprised they get away with it. I'm not defending that. To those who broadly argue against skilled visas, consider this: Most H1B immigrants are between 20-30 age range. The prime age to join the workforce. Think how much investment you ha…

I know this will probably be flagged or voted down, but at least please understand that I truly want to see people in the US get better and more equal. Here it goes: if the US wants to invest in local talent, the US had better invest heavily in education. And I'm not talking about an-iPad-per-kid kind of investment, but investment to hire great teachers, lots of them, to public schools to the point that tutoring scho…

please lend your support to the ongoing movement to shift investment from the prison-industrial complex into health and education.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#505

Post by OldHand2018 » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 1:35 AM UTC

derptacos wrote: post #91

dpbriggs wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't TN visas be a workaround?

How does the TN circumvent in this situation legally ?

The TN visa comes from a treaty between the US, Canada and Mexico; it is not part of the immigration law that gives us the H1-B.

I have no specific knowledge of the wording of the treaty, but it seems highly likely that the leader of any of the 3 countries could suspend the visa.

A cousin of mine used to do staffing for highly specialized roles in the auto industry and the TN was very important in the Detroit/Windsor metro area. I don't think it is used in tech anywhere near as much as it is used elsewhere; since it is clear that the current administration is just looking for ways to give the tech industry a hard time, it seems unlikely that TN would be a target.

On the other hand, the method for getting a TN visa is very much different than other visas. A Mexican citizen coming into the US has a fair amount of advanced paperwork required but otherwise has almost no problem. A Canadian citizen just shows up at the border with a job offer, a detailed description of the job and proof of the education requirements. The immigration officer makes the determination on the spot and they either walk through or turn around! The administration could quietly issue guidance to immigration officers about how strict they need to be, and you might end up with very similar effects without all the publicity of an executive order.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#506

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 1:44 AM UTC

winter_blue wrote: post #424

pascalxus wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand how this might seem unfair to immigrants. this part is completely wrong: "If they have more workforce they can do more". The demand for labor is not determined by the supply of labor, it's determined by the demand for those products. When companies higher engineers for example, they don't just go, "hey, we just had two brilliant engineers interview, so instead of highering 1, we'll higher 2." It neve…

Let's talk about immigrants that are being paid well, for a moment -- since Trump is seeking ban those people as well. (Also since I myself am one such immigrant, and I know several immigrants who were being paid extremely well, whose H-1B cases were denied by the US government under the guise of software engineering not being a "specialty occupation"[1]). A friend of mine last year got a job as a L5 at Google, for a…

[deleted]

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#507

Post by ReticentVole » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 1:46 AM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #381

codelord wrote: post #313

Disclaimer: I'm an immigrant. There are companies like Cognizant/InfoSys/Tata/... whose business model is based on abusing the H1B system, and that's obviously wrong and I'm quite surprised they get away with it. I'm not defending that. To those who broadly argue against skilled visas, consider this: Most H1B immigrants are between 20-30 age range. The prime age to join the workforce. Think how much investment you ha…

Much of what you say is true, but it's important to realize the H1-B is not designed with any of those benefits in mind. Its only purpose is to fill roles where there is no local talent.

The H1B is also not designed to support diversity or equality, which is crucial if we consider it a stepping-stone to long-term immigration (which many people want).

It would seem reasonable to place an intake limit of 10% from any one country, and limiting males to a maximum of 49%.

Right now, lets be honest, the H1B is giant immigration scheme for Indian males to get into the USA: 75% of applicants are Indian, and roughly 70% of applicants are male.

https://tech.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/people/three-...

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3050365/how-many-h-1b-...

With these kind of diversity requirements, it would also be much harder for crooked companies like Infosys to racially discriminate against non-Indians:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/ites/infosys-faces...

The green card lottery visa has diversity metrics built into it explicitly, which is probably why it receives minimal negative attention.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#508

Post by neximo64 » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 1:47 AM UTC

codelord wrote: post #313

Disclaimer: I'm an immigrant. There are companies like Cognizant/InfoSys/Tata/... whose business model is based on abusing the H1B system, and that's obviously wrong and I'm quite surprised they get away with it. I'm not defending that. To those who broadly argue against skilled visas, consider this: Most H1B immigrants are between 20-30 age range. The prime age to join the workforce. Think how much investment you ha…

Your description lacks the implications of being a market participant in the labour market.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#509

Post by FuckButtons » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 1:59 AM UTC

downerending wrote: post #433

codelord wrote: post #313

Disclaimer: I'm an immigrant. There are companies like Cognizant/InfoSys/Tata/... whose business model is based on abusing the H1B system, and that's obviously wrong and I'm quite surprised they get away with it. I'm not defending that. To those who broadly argue against skilled visas, consider this: Most H1B immigrants are between 20-30 age range. The prime age to join the workforce. Think how much investment you ha…

Here's a frank answer. I've worked with various foreigners and H1Bs over a long career and always enjoyed it. I worry sometimes that they're being seriously abused by their employers, but I figure that's for them to decide. I feel less positive about the program these days given that a number of companies have made it a point of pride to emphasize hiring of "diverse" employees, which seems in reality to be a pretext…

I’m English, there was no English cuisine before Indian food. The closest thing we had to a national dish was fish and chips, which frankly, is fucking awful. About all you can say for English food is that we make nice beer.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#510

Post by comex » Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 2:02 AM UTC

john_moscow wrote: post #503

hintymad wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this will probably be flagged or voted down, but at least please understand that I truly want to see people in the US get better and more equal. Here it goes: if the US wants to invest in local talent, the US had better invest heavily in education. And I'm not talking about an-iPad-per-kid kind of investment, but investment to hire great teachers, lots of them, to public schools to the point that tutoring scho…

This comment is the reason why we need to rethink our current culture of censorship and social media outrage. It explains a non-trivial logical connection, showing how something that could look unpopular from the surface, would pay off in the long run. Except you cannot make comments like this in public anymore. Because all it takes is an angry mob leader shouting "%USERNAME% is %CLICHE%ist" and that's it. Your emplo…

I don't see anything in the parent comment that's even remotely controversial. Almost everyone across the political spectrum agrees that we should spend more on education, at least in the abstract. There's plenty of disagreement on the details, but I don't see anything in the comment that stakes out a strong position on any of the major issues. Perhaps I'm missing something.