You download the app and it doesn’t work • Hacker News Board

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#461

Post by lern_too_spel » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:55 AM UTC

nodamage wrote: post #335

MrStonedOne wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not a list of "exceptions". Part of the whole point is the relation to the quote at the start. In every one of those apps signing up "doesn't work" which goes against the stated goal of ensuring that users can download the app and expect it work . How can it work if you can't even sign into it because you can't sign up for it and they can't even tell you how to.

Except the app was not rejected for failing to meet the standards of the quote. It was rejected for failing to meet the App Store review guidelines. This whole website is a strawman built against the false claim that you're not allowed to require a login to access your app, which has never actually been true.

He is arguing that the rule does not match the intent.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#462

Post by landric » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:56 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #417

landric wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[OP of the site] I tried to limit the list to apps where you couldn't get to _any_ functionality without logging in. AirBnB lets you browse around etc. Airlines let you look at dates / availability. I included Wells Fargo, however, because I thought it was wild that they're able to provide straight web links to Safari to sign up for banking services, whereas Hey has to pretend like accounts are bestowed via divine in…

If you don't know the difference between a bank and Hey, then there's probably nothing anyone can do to convince you that your position isn't tenable.

There is a difference, of course there is!

Why, then, did Apple decide to gerrymander its rules to extract rent from one industry and not the other?

Perhaps there's an ethical or philosophical argument why Apple feels entitled to one industry's revenue and not the other, but I haven't heard that argument.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#463

Post by uhryks » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 2:00 AM UTC

donmcronald wrote: post #264

zaroth wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans applying policy will be inconsistent. The alternative is Google where algorithms apply policy, and if they misapply a policy to you're simply screwed. I think the inverse to "Apple employed humans make a judgement call" is "Apple is no longer allowed to control their App Store". I don't like that option, because the curated App Store is a big reason why I bought an iPhone.

You can still sideload or use an alternate store on Android. The experience isn't very good, but it's still an option. I think if the fees were split out people would lose their minds on more expensive apps because they'd recognize it isn't good value. Ex: Hey: $70 / year App Store Fee: $30 / year Also, did Hey get the prices wrong or are they talking about keeping the prices the same and eating the 30%? If they want…

I may be wrong as I don't have the rules under the hand but iirc Apple's rules state that the in-app purchases prices must be set as to not push users to go pay outside the app. So raising your price may result in a takedown of your app, meaning you have to eat the 30% if you want to stay on the store.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#464

Post by o-__-o » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 2:05 AM UTC

alerighi wrote: post #367

scubbo wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like that's a disingenuous comparison, given how complex the electronics of appliances must be nowadays (disclaimer: I have absolutely no idea, my experience is strictly at the software level) - but the general principle should still apply to be able to use products that you own in a (non-harmful) way that you choose.

Still there are components were a schematic would be useful. For example a schematic of the power supply, since 90% of the faults that TVs have are related to that. A power supply is not that complex and having a schematic would mean that repairs would be simpler. Also nowadays it would be useful to have some sort of debug port, for example a serial port to connect and have a CLI to do diagnostic, upload a new firmwa…

That would mean you could fix it yourself and cut out their authorized repair program. Better to just not put release the schematics, but also not go after anyone that creates the schematics either.

See dishwashers, microwaves, Apple iPhones, and washing machines. Car manufacturers still publish schematics for their circuitry (for a fee)

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#465

Post by jackvalentine » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 2:07 AM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #363

jackvalentine wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think we can draw a bit of a line from they were a major game not on the Play Store and now they're a major game on the Play Store - my guess is barely anyone sideloaded it.

Well, or that because the game was being sideloaded a lot, Google offered Epic a special deal.

This is not the case. It’s a full capitulation on Epic’s part.

https://www.polygon.com/2020/4/21/21229930/fortnite-availabl...

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#466

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 2:07 AM UTC

tootie wrote: post #395

scarface74 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What company doesn’t charge what the market will bare and has a goal to just break even?

Any company that wants to stay competitive. The entire point of this post is that iOS app makers are deliberately hurting their customer experience because their monopolist platform is charging unreasonable fees.

Unreasonable compared to what? Physical store markup? Other digital marketplaces like Google Play, Kindle? Spotify? Steam? If App makers in general are hurting and they are all paying the same 30% cut, wouldn’t the market have 43% markup?

You also act as if money on the store is coming from small Indy developers and not big corporations and mostly play to win games. Especially since the former big money makers have stopped allowing in app subscriptions.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#467

Post by lern_too_spel » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 2:09 AM UTC

jpttsn wrote: post #243

dgudkov wrote: post #76

On a side note, I don't know whether it's intentional or not, but the whole story is a great marketing campaign for HEY. Clashing with Apple made everybody learn about the app in a matter of days.

It’s obviously intentional. I’ve never heard about Hey. Then today, first they post something else and now someone defrosts this tired whine about Apple monetizing, and Hey (whatever it is) tops the list. Sigh. Good work marketers, people seem to buy it.

They didn't change anything in their app. How could they have known that Apple would suddenly enforce a rule on them that they had not previously enforced?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#468

Post by quitethelogic » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 2:11 AM UTC

iSoron wrote: post #143

pmiller2 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can override their decision by jailbreaking your phone.

If Apple provided an official jailbreaking tool, I would actually consider this a valid solution, even if it voided the warranty on the device.

Perhaps that's the one more thing at WWDC next week.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#469

Post by rydre » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 2:18 AM UTC

nodamage wrote: post #337

wpm wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HEY is a digital content app too. Rich e-mails contain content, and are digital. Everything I look at on my smartphone is digital content.

Not by the definition given in section 3.1.3(a) of the App Store review guidelines.

Apple's trashy guidelines need to go to the dustbin of history.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#470

Post by pfranz » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 2:22 AM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #401

parsimo2010 wrote: post #52

I think there needs to be some distinction between apps that are the main product (or close to it) and apps that support another product (like there is npo point to having the app by itself, you should already have gotten the product/account before downloading the app). I don't know too much about Apple's rules to know if they use that criteria, but it makes sense to me. An app to manage your Tesla makes no sense unl…

> one other thing I haven't seen whether Basecamp could just charge $141.43 per year if someone pays through Apple, so Basecamp would get $99 per year after Apple takes their 30% cut. This is far from ideal for two reasons: 1) Some users will be paying 30% more just because they signed up in the app. How is this a good experience that protects the user? 2) most importantly, Basecamp loses the ability to manage the fi…

> 2) most importantly, Basecamp loses the ability to manage the financial aspects of the customer relationship. They’re unable to give discounts, credit, refunds, add time to the subscription etc. It’s a hassle for all the back office management as now some customers come through a completely different billing + subscription platform.

I want to start by saying I think Apple is overstepping their bounds here and has been for years. But one reason I like the app store is because companies are generally terrible stewards. For example, I took my car to the dealer and the next week I get post cards for XM Radio (I will continue to get them for months because this has happened before). A few years ago I had a reoccurring donation to a popular Public Radio show. I was changing credit cards and was trying to update the subscription. There was no way to update it on their website or contact them to update (which included canceling). I sent email with no response. I ended up cancelling the card and with it my subscription. I'm now very skeptical about services that manage reoccurring payments.