Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them • Hacker News Board

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#291

Post by learc83 » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:49 AM UTC

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #281

learc83 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes no sense. Apple didn't create the market segment, but because those people choose to use iPhone, you can't sell them an email service that doesn't work on iPhone. If 80% of people making more than $100k a year use iPhones and Apple disappeared, the market segment of people making more than $100k a year wouldn't disappear.

> That makes no sense. Apple didn't create the market segment, but because those people choose to use iPhone, you can't sell them an email service that doesn't work on iPhone. Make the email service work on iPhone. There are more than 2,000,000 apps in the App Store. There's no reason to think they're being unfair with that many in there. If you can't make an app and follow the rules there, tough luck. It's not fair…

>It's not fair to the developers that don't make shovelware otherwise

>In any case, crap apps would flood the market - consumers would get worse experiences, and be less likely to buy apps. Free apps will decimate quality applications. And you'll get the playstore or android, a malware infested UI nightmare.

How would apple lowering their feeds, allowing a competing app store, allowing sideloaded apps, or allowing apps to have subscriptions outside of apple pay make it easier for crappy apps to make it to the app store?

If there's a competing app store and it's so permissive that it turns into low quality nightmare, then customers will keep using the apple app store. I don't understand how you're getting from A to B.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#292

Post by learc83 » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:55 AM UTC

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #282

learc83 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are more on the android platform, and therefore enough for viability. Is that true for customers who are interested in a high end email service that costs $100 a year? I'd wager that the vast majority of people in that segment are on iPhones.

Honestly, I don't think that segment really exists. The ones that would search that out will just as likely be on android as iPhone. If 33% of such an app is enough to cause this much angst, it makes me think it just isn't that popular.

>Honestly, I don't think that segment really exists. The ones that would search that out will just as likely be on android as iPhone.

Why. The type of people who want a curated mail experience might just happen to be the type of people who like the curated iPhone experience.

>If 33% of such an app is enough to cause this much angst, it makes me think it just isn't that popular.

Why 33%? If you're right and they're just as likely to seek out android it's going to be 50%. If I'm right it's going to be much higher than that. Where are you getting 33% from?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#293

Post by lern_too_spel » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:04 AM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #253

lern_too_spel wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their privacy stance is pure marketing bluff. Any alternative phone you can buy in the US is going to be better for your privacy. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23329646

Do you have any evidence that GPS isn't sent by all phones sold in the USA? I would bet this is a requirement for 911 support (likely required by government regulation on the phone service provider) rather than an Apple "violation of privacy". > For safety purposes, however, your iPhone’s location information may be used when you place an emergency call to aid response efforts regardless of whether you enable Locatio…

iPhone sends your location data to Apple, not just when you dial an emergency number, but every time you use GPS, and there is no way to turn this off. The absurdity of a company marketing a phone that does that (among the other things I listed) as private is astounding. The fact that people fall for this marketing is even more astounding.

This Hey example is another one. If you want to sign up for Hey on an iPhone, Apple is saying that you have to let them know that you are subscribing to Hey, and moreover, you have to give your billing details to Apple, which (unless you take some extra steps) means telling Apple who you are and where you live.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#294

Post by freehunter » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:14 AM UTC

WalterSear wrote: post #288

thebruce87m wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t buy Apple laptops or any laptops Any more but it’s interesting that you cite poor price-performance. 15 years ago when I did they had great cost -performance, i.e. they held their value relative to the competition, remained usable for longer for a number of reasons and when sold actually yielded better value over the full lifecycle. Has this changed?

Yes. For one, the keyboards fail.

On some models made in some years and the manufacturer has admitting the fault and extended an extra warranty to cover the fault and made adjustments to the process to avoid that fault in the future.

Surely indicative of the shoddy quality Apple is known for...

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#295

Post by freehunter » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:19 AM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #272

root_axis wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that translate into support for google?

If you spend money or attention on a site that pays Google as a vendor, that is quite obviously indirect support of Google. Perhaps we are just quibbling about which definition of the word "support"? In which case I agree that there is one definition of support in which you are right and another in which your parent is right.

That's about as much support for Google as if I bought a product from a storefront that's in a building owned by a landlord who supports a cause I don't agree with. First of all, I (as a consumer) would have no idea who owned that building, and secondly the link between my purchase and money flowing to that unsavory cause is so far removed that it's not even worth considering.

Go far enough down any business transaction and you'll find a cause you disagree with. If the tree you planted makes oxygen for your worst enemy, will you cut down the tree to spite them?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#296

Post by freehunter » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:20 AM UTC

buo wrote: post #190

koheripbal wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but then you've given up on an entire technology set. You haven't avoided Apple and Android, you've avoided the tech entirely.

I have avoided commercial smartphone products entirely, yes, and very much on purpose. I have not avoided technology in general, not by a long shot.

The statement wasn't "you avoided technology", it was "you avoided the technology".

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#297

Post by freehunter » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:29 AM UTC

RandomBacon wrote: post #186

fermienrico wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one who loves Apple products? I love MacOS. I love iOS. I love all things Apple. Customer service is totally top notch. Physical quality is excellent, of course I have my wishes and pet peeves (don’t like cold aluminum, stupid touchbar, keyboard!). I’m willing to pay even double the cost of other cheaply made products from Asus, Acer, Samsung, etc. Not to mention the whole ecosystem thing and I trust Ap…

I used to love Apple products when I was a kid. This is Apple's 1984 commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I They aren't the same company anymore. They started making fun of people that used other products. They started to say you can only use use Apple products this way. They started to say, "you're holding it wrong". They started to just pretend to be user-friendly and stopped actually being user-fr…

The 1984 commercial highlights that Apple has always made fun of people who used other products (who do you think is in the audience? Consumers of their competitors products).

The 90's slogan "Think Different" was a direct shot across the bow of IBM's slogan "Think". When they say "here's to the crazy ones" they're directly saying their customers are inherently different from the customers of their competitors.

That's how Apple has always been.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#298

Post by freehunter » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:32 AM UTC

bzb3 wrote: post #192

pphysch wrote: post #93

This debacle is peak popcorn. "HN Darling Reinvents Email Except Really Expensive Without SMTP Support And Asserts That Apple Is Being A Meanie For Enforcing Their Revenue Model" Yet no one is going to divest from Apple because profit/weird consumer ideology. Also not precluding the possibility that it's all (or mostly) a big marketing act from what is clearly a marketing-first product (Hey).

Wow, Hey doesn't have SMTP support? That's ridiculous.

Well, Hey isn't trying to be yet another email service. The idea is that SMTP does not support the kind of messaging that Hey is built around.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#299

Post by Krasnol » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #256

Krasnol wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume it refers to this: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/how-antifragile-apple-inc-re... Basically: Apples competitors marketshare concentrates on the lower cost market part while sharing the infrastructure. Apple has it's users locked in to their environment and controls the upper part of the market. Making it not only hard to switch the infrastructure but also keeping the price always as up as necessary/possible…

How does Apple “control” the market? Is Apple forcing users to pay an average of three times more for an iPhone than an Android device? Is it Apple’s fault that Android manufactures+Google can’t come up with a device that people are willing to pay more for?

No, they are creating an locked in environment where switching is hard while switching is easy on Android. So you end up with 2 different groups/(markets?). One ready to pay more but locked in and another group wanting to pay less for more with a variety of hardware choices and companies betting against each other for a lower price on same hardware/specifications.

Apple therefore controls the price for their locked in environment. Rising prices for hardware, fees, accesoirs, repairs,...

At least this is how I understand this theory but since I'll probably get downvotes again, this will be my last comment on this. Sorry.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#300

Post by jpttsn » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:51 AM UTC

colinmorelli wrote: post #70

diffctx99 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You fail to define what the legitimate issues are. They have no real hardware or store monopoly, Android still out numbers them in install base. Legally it’s undecided at all. This is essentially complaining Walmart and Target use different means of revenue generation for placing product. Maybe Microsoft can get a phone and store off the ground that has a bigger install base. Oh wait. Maybe app sellers should have he…

They choose to go "all in" because it is literally the only option to get an app on the devices of ~58% of smartphone owners in the United States. They don't have a choice, they literally have to accept it in this market. Even in other markets where they don't control the majority, it's still a massive portion of the market. It's hard to imagine how the precedent established by not forcing change here would be desire…

If I want to be on “Survivor”, I don’t have much choice but to apply to CBS to be on “Survivor”. They control the whole show, I’m literally a pawn in their game. I wish I wasn’t born into this. Oh woe.