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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#361

Post by jfoster »

flobosg wrote: post #253
dgudkov wrote: post #76

On a side note, I don't know whether it's intentional or not, but the whole story is a great marketing campaign for HEY. Clashing with Apple made everybody learn about the app in a matter of days.

> David, I’ve got to I ask you, because so many people have said this. You’re very successful. Basecamp is excellent at marketing. Did you do this on purpose? Did you time this to create this firestorm before WWDC? > I wish I was that smart. Imagine if I was that good at 4D chess. Imagine just the mechanics of this: first, you have to plant someone within Apple that approves the application, which, and then, what, I…

They couldn't have relied on it getting rejected, but they must have been keenly aware that it was a possibility. What we're seeing is probably their contingency plan playing out.

They'll eventually probably capitulate. Maybe with a higher price on the IAP? They're very much making sure that Apple are earning their 30% through this campaign, though!

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#362

Post by brandon272 »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #348
brandon272 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stores take 30% lifetime subscription royalties for products sold on their shelves? Can you imagine if Best Buy required Apple to add "Best Buy Payments" to MacOS so that Best Buy could collect a 30% fee on top of any services subscription that Apple sells to that MacBook user? All for the privilege of selling their products through the BB stores. Apple isn't marking up a product for resale in it's retail enviro…

It doesn’t matter. These are the terms of the store. If Walmart makes clear an expectation that you have to have an office in Arkansas in order to sell an item in their store, then you shouldn’t be surprised when your item is rejected from their store if you don’t build that office. There’s no expectation that you’d have free placement, certainly. As for your Best Buy example, Best Buy can make that demand, but Best…

I agree completely - Apple can have whatever terms it wants within the bounds of the law. And app developers have every right to complain about those terms, loudly and in a sustained fashion, if they wish.

The second part there is what a lot of people seem to have difficulty accepting.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#363

Post by Wowfunhappy »

jackvalentine wrote: post #312
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoops, thanks, guess I was out of date! Still, Fortnite was sideload-only for a while, and that's a major game.

Yeah I think we can draw a bit of a line from they were a major game not on the Play Store and now they're a major game on the Play Store - my guess is barely anyone sideloaded it.

Well, or that because the game was being sideloaded a lot, Google offered Epic a special deal.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#365

Post by 1123581321 »

MrStonedOne wrote: post #259

Think of a flee market. Lets say this flee market runs their own PoS system that tables can use, they require all sales happen via this PoS system "to protect customers from hacking", and they charge a percentage for providing this service, higher then normal under the guise that the transaction is being conducted on their property, they are "hosting" the "sale" under their roof, so they set the terms for it. Seems f…

This is pedantic, but it’s “flea market.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flea_market

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#366

Post by dan-robertson »

5Qn8mNbc2FNCiVV wrote: post #347

I really don't understand how so many people cannot understand the simple fact that it's "Fuck you pay us 30% or you won't get on iphones". It's not "Hey you can use our store for 30% revenue cut and other benefits or you can market/host/whatever else it yourself". This is what they are comparing it with Google, idc what else shady stuff Google is doing but if I want my app on an android without paying Google a dime…

People can understand something and think that it’s immoral or that they don’t like it. The reason this thread has many replies is that people have strong opinions, not that they don’t understand.

But also your first sentence is merely partly true. It isn’t a simple fact because it is selectively enforced. It comes with the caveat that if you’re big then probably the rules don’t apply so much to you

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#367

Post by alerighi »

scubbo wrote: post #98
catalogia wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TVs used to come with circuit diagrams so that people could repair it themselves at home using standard parts. I've not seen anything like that in many years, even for far simpler appliances.

I feel like that's a disingenuous comparison, given how complex the electronics of appliances must be nowadays (disclaimer: I have absolutely no idea, my experience is strictly at the software level) - but the general principle should still apply to be able to use products that you own in a (non-harmful) way that you choose.

Still there are components were a schematic would be useful. For example a schematic of the power supply, since 90% of the faults that TVs have are related to that. A power supply is not that complex and having a schematic would mean that repairs would be simpler.

Also nowadays it would be useful to have some sort of debug port, for example a serial port to connect and have a CLI to do diagnostic, upload a new firmware, etc. They have these interfaces in the TVs but most of the time are either disabled or protected so the end user cannot use them.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#368

Post by acituan »

pdonis wrote: post #251
MrStonedOne wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel it pertinent to point out that comments like yours help keep the status quo. Pointing out that apple is not alone in a thread trying to raise awareness about apple's practices both distracts from apple's unethical behavior and contributes to normalizing the behavior in public perception. So my question to you is: do you want to see these unethical behaviors end? or continue?

Why is it unethical to charge a fee to developers who want to distribute their software through an app store that Apple owns? I get that it's unpleasant for developers who don't like the policy, and at some point it might have business consequences for Apple if they don't change the policy, but why is it unethical?

> Why is it unethical to charge a fee to developers who want to distribute their software through an app store that Apple owns?

Developer don't necessarily want to distribute their software through that app store, they are forced to do that if they want to sell their software to people who happen to use that operating system. Operating system and app store are distinct products, but app store exclusively gatekeeps the functionality the user can achieve through the operating system they bought.

If app store was a standalone offering that aimed to benefit the user, there shouldn't be any problem allowing multiple competing app stores people paid for the convenience of vetted and curated apps and letting the market forces decide the winner. That is obviously not happening.

Therefore, strongarming the ecosystem and stifling market dynamics is the unethical move here. Less competition, less innovation, less user benefit, less developer income (which translates into even less innovation) etc is the price everyone pays in aggregate in order for Apple to exact its rent, which goes to their idle pile of cash or comes back to humanity as a 0.002 grams lighter iPhone++ next year.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#369

Post by Wowfunhappy »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #354
stdgy wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And customers aren't required to only shop at a single store. If the store doesn't have what I want, I should be able to go to another store.

And you have that option. Your Apple hardware is your Costco Membership Card. You aren’t able to buy Sam’s Club products using your Costco membership, and Costco’s under no expectation to make them available to you.

But I can buy a fridge at Costco, buy food from Sam's Club, and still store my food in my fridge. I don't have to throw out Costco's fridge in order to buy food elsewhere.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#370

Post by alasdair_ »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #292
wrkronmiller wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anything essential is going to want to be in the App Store, in order to reach customers. The logical extension of that argument is that the Hey app would still be in the App Store and still be facing this exact problem.

Hey is a tiny app used by a few people; it's not essential. If Hey became a cultural phenomenon, I'd bet that Apple would magically reinterpret their rules. This is exactly the purpose of having competition.

>If they became a cultural phenomenon I'd bet that Apple would magically reinterpret their rules.

Please trust me on this but, even if your app is far and away the #1 grossing app on the app store and hundreds of media outlets have literally used the term "cultural phenomenon" to describe it, Apple is still a huge stickler on the rules and it still takes forever (and a lot of stress) to get approved, every single update.

This applies even if your CEO has Tim Cook's personal cellphone number and talked to him about the issues with app store approval a week before, in person.

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