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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#171

It's a good thing for Apple that WWDC isn't in-person this year. I wouldn't trust the developers in the audience to stay quiet and applause at the announcements this year...

I'm surprised that Hey! managed to create such a big public outrage about that issue. Years ago Spotify complained about the very same thing and given that Spotify has a much bigger userbase I kind of expected the outrage to be bigger. I suppose a large share of the potential Hey customers work in tech and might have a better understanding of what the app store tax actually means. And the EU anti trust investigations…

Hey was extremely hyped before the launch. At least in certain tech / developer circle. And people have been wanting something new to email. With a waiting list of over 70K, and 10K from first day alone. People saying Hey is hyped up because of Apple is getting the story backwards. The waiting list is also not just filling in an email address but actually writing an email saying you want in. That is some friction involved and I have seen lots of people while interested but didn't bother with writing one.

Remember Hey isn't free. People on waiting list already knew this from day one. With 70K invite, that is $7M annual revenue already.

DHH also went on about making sure no mention of Sign up in Webpages as well as many other commonly known App Stores rules before the App was submitted. And many thought it would pass, and it did for 1.0. It is the bug fix 1.01 update that was blocked Due to IAP reason. For most if not all iOS developers. This is new. So new that Fastmail didn't get their treatment until now. [1]

This new IAP rule force 30% on new sign up, as you could not even allow the App to be on App Store without IAP ( hence this website ). Along with the threat from Apple about pulling Hey from App Store, and finally their tone, which was like adding even more fuel to outrage, and I quote

Thank you for being an iOS app developer. We understand that Basecamp has developed a number of apps and many subsequent versions for the App Store for many years, and that the App Store has distributed millions of these apps to iOS users. These apps do not offer in-app purchase — and, consequently, have not contributed any revenue to the App Store over the last eight years.

Is not exactly helping and got even more outrage from developers who dont even use Hey. To me that is about the most polite way from Apple saying fuck you. ( If the webpage author is reading this I suggest you include this quote on the webpage, or make a new site with all the popular useful free Apps that helped users but contributed noting to Apple. )

I know there are many who hate DHH and Ruby Rails, but seriously I cant see how he could have orchestra the whole thing as marketing. As if he knew about the IAP rule changes before hand.

[1]https://twitter.com/Fastmail/status/1273800222989324288

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can use Google Chrome, and still use a non-Google search engine. I can use a Kindle, and still read DRM-Free epubs. Yes, all the major tech companies are engaged in rent seeking. But Apple is the only one that says users must either must pay rent or throw away their hardware. The App Store and its policies are not the problem. The App Store is Apple's store, just like Amazon.com is Amazon's store. But the App Store…

Doesn't Android have the same problem? If your app isn't in the Play Store, it may as well not exist.

There are alternative software repositories, such as F-Droid.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#173
post #49

So nice for the people of Basecamp to be fighting the good fight for everyone and the small developers. It’s not like they were perfectly fine with the system as long as it didn’t affect them, being one of the “famous” companies out there, while independent developers and small start-ups had to deal with this for years and years. I was excited about hey before, and even though I don’t agree and don’t like the way the…

> I was excited about hey before, and even though I don’t agree and don’t like the way the App Store works, I find Hey and the superstars behind it so hypocritical and annoying now.

I don't understand this sentiment. You don't like the way the App Store works and a company comes along and is willing to fight against Apple for it, and then you start disliking them? Why are they hypocritical? They are pointing out flaws and being loud about them. Yes, I am aware that it's because it aligns with their financial/strategical interests, but ultimately it's a good thing that they are pressuring Apple, no?

> It’s not like they were perfectly fine with the system as long as it didn’t affect them, being one of the “famous” companies out there, while independent developers and small start-ups had to deal with this for years and years.

What about Netflix, GitHub and all of other companies who are able to get away. They are apparently big enough that Apple cares about them to bend the rules; why aren't we annoyed that they're not willing to stand up for other developers as well? They certainly should have some way of pressuring Apple.

> It’s funny how we hate here AMP and other technologies that are killing the open web, but we’re fine with a closed email system that locks you in Basecamp’s walled garden.

How is Hey "a closed email system"? It sends and receives emails using SMTP. Closed source email clients is far from a new invention and

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#174
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not jack up prices and then offer a 30% "discount" via web signups?

part of the app store rules is you can't do that. you have to offer it for the same price. somehow spotify seem to have gotten away with not doing this.

That’s not true. In fact Spotify did charge more for in app subscriptions v

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#175
Why is Apple's revenue here even percentage-based at all?

It makes zero sense.

According to Apple they need this revenue cut because of the cost of keeping the platform running.

If I offer a subscription in my app for 1$/month vs 10$/month what marginal expense is being incurred that apple deserves an extra $2.70 for the higher price?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#176

I think the standard response should be to allow the in-app signup/purchase with a 42% marked up rate and a very clear line item that it is the "Apple platform tax, not charged via other distributors". Worth doing the same to Google IMO. I think the "right" amount to charge would be something like a standard credit card processor - 30 cents + 3% or so. Maybe a flat 5 or 10% for apps under a certain price. I can't ima…

Does any retailer just charge credit card fees?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#177
post #93
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose you’re not affected by app store policies. Otherwise you’d be extremely grateful to DHH to step up and fight publicly, instead of trying to deal with apple in private or just cave in. It has never felt so close to actually breaking up apple tight grip on its developer community, and it’s all thanks to him.

Because they are being ridiculous already. It’s one thing to help developers and try to bring up their stories and issues with the App Store, it’s another thing to come up with ridiculous examples (Tesla, banking apps, AirBnB and so on, that have nothing to to with SaaS, subscriptions and IAP) and this insane campaign for their own product.

It should be noted that this website is not created by Basecamp, but is a personal project by someone else. Yes, they are giving Hey free marketing, but this is not an official attempt at marketing Hey.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#178

There are a lot of rules lawyers in threads about Hey trying to figure out "tricks" that Basecamp or others could use to avoid the rule. That is not how this works. Apple is not a court, which (usually) plays by well stated rules, and cannot remake those rules at its discretion. No, if you find a "trick" to get around Apple's rules[0], what happens is that you get blocked when they catch you. They might update the ru…

It's a bit of a joke to be honest. Hey are trying to market an app on the app store as a 'free' app. Not offering sign up also means they don't have to add the 'offers in app purchases'. So they're advertising the app as free. Even though its $99 a year. Apples 30% cut is obscene and should be less. But Hey are using a 'free' label to market their app.

I am not really invested in either party but this comment is plainly wrong. They aren’t using the free label to market their service any more than Netflix, Tesla or any of the other apps in OPs link

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because you can sideload Android apps. Fortnite for Android isn't in the Play Store, and it definitely exists.

They capitulated and it’s now on the Play Store. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.epicgames....

Whoops, thanks, guess I was out of date! Still, Fortnite was sideload-only for a while, and that's a major game.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#180
post #37

Apple takes a 30% cut of all IAP. Google scrapes info and displays it in widgets above links to the actual content. Google charges trademark holders AdWords ransom to protect searches for their own brands. Amazon kills OSS business models by offering managed OSS services on AWS at an unbeatable cost. Amazon picks off the best performing market place categories with Amazon Basics ‘recommended’ competitors. The list go…

I feel it pertinent to point out that comments like yours help keep the status quo.

Pointing out that apple is not alone in a thread trying to raise awareness about apple's practices both distracts from apple's unethical behavior and contributes to normalizing the behavior in public perception.

So my question to you is: do you want to see these unethical behaviors end? or continue?

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