Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 559 posts

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#351

Post by jpttsn »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #332
RonanTheGrey wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know what I signed up for. Why should I feel entitled to anything else? It's interesting you'd say that because it's actually not true (I am not accusing you of lying at all - I take your statement at face value!) What I mean is the following: When I buy a phone - no matter the maker - I have deep within me a default assumption that if I want some app, some provider, some service, some feature, on my phone - that…

> I know what I signed up for. Why should I feel entitled to anything else? I bought an iPhone and had no idea bit torrent clients were banned

Did you return it, or did it not matter enough to change the purchase decision?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#352

Post by 1123581321 »

zaroth wrote: post #147
dgudkov wrote: post #76

On a side note, I don't know whether it's intentional or not, but the whole story is a great marketing campaign for HEY. Clashing with Apple made everybody learn about the app in a matter of days.

I would say that if anything Hey was hoping that Apple would reject their app specifically so they could become a cause célèbre, and ride the streisand effect, They've done a great job organizing their protest campaign. I would be extremely surprised if it wasn't planned from the beginning. They are ultimately depending on Apple caving under pressure.

This seems unlikely. They are at real risk of having their 1.0 app pulled, and even if it remains it has real bugs. Additionally, until this week I don’t think any iOS developer would have predicted this rules clarification/enforcement.

That said, they were clearly ready to loudly react to whatever trouble did emerge.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#353

Post by amelius »

Shared404 wrote: post #309
roenxi wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These things are true; and also a significant component of Apple's value proposition. An Apple customer can be sure they will: 1) Never need to learn what a "sideload" is 2) Never be exposed to Apps that havn't been vetted by a trustworthy party (in this case Apple) Apple is taking the opportunity to milk app developers, but they've done an effective job of positioning the milking process so that it is done in the us…

> 2) Never be exposed to Apps that havn't been vetted by a trustworthy party (in this case Apple) My understanding is that neither major mobile app store has done a great job of vetting.

Yes,

https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2020/04/fleeceware-a...

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#354

Post by ilikehurdles »

stdgy wrote: post #338
ilikehurdles wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A store owner is not obligated to give you free placement on their shelves.

And customers aren't required to only shop at a single store. If the store doesn't have what I want, I should be able to go to another store.

And you have that option.

Your Apple hardware is your Costco Membership Card. You aren’t able to buy Sam’s Club products using your Costco membership, and Costco’s under no expectation to make them available to you.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#355

Post by 1123581321 »

jpttsn wrote: post #243
dgudkov wrote: post #76

On a side note, I don't know whether it's intentional or not, but the whole story is a great marketing campaign for HEY. Clashing with Apple made everybody learn about the app in a matter of days.

It’s obviously intentional. I’ve never heard about Hey. Then today, first they post something else and now someone defrosts this tired whine about Apple monetizing, and Hey (whatever it is) tops the list. Sigh. Good work marketers, people seem to buy it.

They had a large audience before this.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#356

Post by chrisseaton »

reustle wrote: post #284

I have no horse in this race, but it has been interesting to watch the conversations grow over the past few days on this topic. Some people are so pro-Apple on this, clearly ignoring some of the primary complaints (like no option to not use the App Store for distribution). As I get older, I can't help but wonder if these people are simply shareholders of Apple (or any company in a discussion like this). Is this good…

> Is this good for society overall, to have such a strong financial incentive for so many people to willfully ignore the other side of important arguments?

Ironically, you're wilfully ignoring the other side of the important argument, and telling yourself the lie that anyone who disagrees with you must be being paid to do so, rather than listening to them and thinking about why they may think that way through their own reasoning.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#357

Post by parsimo2010 »

baddox wrote: post #286
parsimo2010 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think every app comes with a clear label attached, but I think most people could decide which apps are the product and which apps are just a feature for the product. For argument's sake, I'll claim the core distinction to be if the only realistic alternative to use a product is through an app on another platform or through a web browser, then the app is the core product and not just a supporting feature. The…

I just don’t think the distinction is actually as clear as you describe it. Most of these apps are clients for a server-based product that you’re paying for. One could argue that the Netflix app isn’t the product, it’s just a video player that you use to connect to the server that you’re paying to have access to. If Netflix just exposed .mp4 links in a web browser, then it would work fine in Safari on an iPhone. Or i…

I addressed this. It's not a watertight mathematically provable law, but I think that with the majority of apps, a reasonable person making a good faith effort would have the same conclusion as me. I said if it's the only realistic alternative is to use an app or browser. I also said that the product might "live" on a server, but if you can only access it via app or browser then the product is an app.

Most of these products are not clients. A client is something like an RSS reader, where one company makes app but interact with services/products from other companies. Netflix does not sell you a subscription to watch movies and then allow you to watch it with third-party apps. They do not expose .mp4 files, so saying "if they did this" isn't relevant. They try their hardest to force you to watch with their app.

Overall, your arguments are silly. People have common sense and can use it. Using misdirection in your words doesn't change what the functionality of the product is. Coming up with strange corner cases that don't exist and aren't viable products aren't good examples. Until an actual commercial e-book service that functions through SSH exists then Apple doesn't need to waste their time addressing it.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#358

Post by 1123581321 »

mns wrote: post #49

So nice for the people of Basecamp to be fighting the good fight for everyone and the small developers. It’s not like they were perfectly fine with the system as long as it didn’t affect them, being one of the “famous” companies out there, while independent developers and small start-ups had to deal with this for years and years. I was excited about hey before, and even though I don’t agree and don’t like the way the…

They weren’t fine. They spoke against Google, Facebook and Apple last year in front of Congress.

https://exponentsmag.org/2020/02/11/antitrust-for-thee-profi...

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#359

Post by jpttsn »

kennywinker wrote: post #318
jpttsn wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t relate to this. Some vendors sell me hardware, and I can bring my own software. Apple sells me more expensive hardware with the software only from their “partners”, which is “curated” and subject to a steep 30% distribution cut. Apple never tricked me into an iPhone believing I could run any random software. I know what I signed up for. Why should I feel entitled to anything else?

Remember when their slogan was “there’s an app for that”? Implication being - whatever you want, it’s there.

Implication being “there’s an app for” a number of needs, but not that “there’s every app” for every need.

When the case in point is an email client this argument seems especially facetious. Is any customer really being defrauded because “there’s not an app for email”?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#360

Post by grawprog »

roenxi wrote: post #213
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can use Google Chrome, and still use a non-Google search engine. I can use a Kindle, and still read DRM-Free epubs. Yes, all the major tech companies are engaged in rent seeking. But Apple is the only one that says users must either must pay rent or throw away their hardware. The App Store and its policies are not the problem. The App Store is Apple's store, just like Amazon.com is Amazon's store. But the App Store…

These things are true; and also a significant component of Apple's value proposition. An Apple customer can be sure they will: 1) Never need to learn what a "sideload" is 2) Never be exposed to Apps that havn't been vetted by a trustworthy party (in this case Apple) Apple is taking the opportunity to milk app developers, but they've done an effective job of positioning the milking process so that it is done in the us…

>2) Never be exposed to Apps that havn't been vetted by a trustworthy party (in this case Apple)

And yet, even after being vetted malware still gets in

https://www.bankinfosecurity.com/apple-battles-app-store-mal...

I see this a lot, and to be honest, this 'Apple products are free from malware' meme has been carried on as long as I can remember in one form or another since the early Mac days. The amount of people that used to say they used Macs because 'they didn't have viruses' is about the same as the people who say 'I use iphones because Apple makes sure I'm safe'.

It's been Apple's marketing strategy for a long time, despite being slightly exaggerated, early Macs did have viruses and yes, malware makes its way onto the app store.

But Apple's marketing strategy sure has been working a long time.

Post reply on HN