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Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

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Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#251

Post by scarface74 »

chrisco255 wrote: post #105
codemac wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

I'm not saying the answer is to break them up, but clearly as was shown with Microsoft in the 90s, they could be forced to allow competition on their devices, like Microsoft had to allow for different search engines on their browsers and different default browsers. Apple could be forced to allow alternative app stores or to stop dragging their feet on PWA features or any other number of reasonable regulations like th…

Microsoft was never required to allow multiple search engines. Nor were they required to allow other default browsers in the US.

I’m sure the government has to technical wherewithal to make sure that Apple is compliant with browser standards....

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#252

Post by scarface74 »

endymi0n wrote: post #150
codemac wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

I‘m more and more of the opinion that oligolipolies (multi-monopolies) should be treated the same as monopolies. Just because there is more than a single provider still does not mean there is a free market and consumers have actual choice. Google and Apple both pull extremely anticompetitive behavior lately and the excuse of „just switch to the other side“ bypasses reality. There are quite a lot of studies that free…

So what do you propose the government do?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#253

Post by thephyber »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #114
peruvian wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Apple products too. I listen to multiple podcasts that are pretty much Apple News/commentary. I like their privacy stance, design, etc. Even products I have no use for like the watch and iPad Pros blow my mind with their use cases especially for non-developers. Having a Unix-like terminal with stable and long-lasting hardware helped me as a young developer in college. Hardware has been hit and miss lately but…

Their privacy stance is pure marketing bluff. Any alternative phone you can buy in the US is going to be better for your privacy. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23329646

Do you have any evidence that GPS isn't sent by all phones sold in the USA? I would bet this is a requirement for 911 support (likely required by government regulation on the phone service provider) rather than an Apple "violation of privacy".

> For safety purposes, however, your iPhone’s location information may be used when you place an emergency call to aid response efforts regardless of whether you enable Location Services.[1]

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207056

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#254

Post by scarface74 »

ViViDboarder wrote: post #221
codemac wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

The monopoly in this case is the distribution of iOS applications and payment within them. Breaking that up means allowing other payment options within apps and potentially allowing side loaded applications.

And Amazon has a monopoly on Kindle apps and Spotify has a monopoly on music that can be played on its platform.

That’s not how monopolies work.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#255

Post by scarface74 »

smnrchrds wrote: post #148
CydeWeys wrote: post #3

"Whining" is an overly prejudicial word choice for this title. These are legitimate issues people have with what Apple is doing, not mere whining. This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal that is so commonly used as a lampshade for suppressing dissent. Not sure if that's the intent here but that's what it comes off as. And this point from the article needs to be…

> This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal It's even worse than that. Even if you leave Apple ecosystem, you are still subject to it. Consumers don't like paying different prices based on the platform they are using. They will feel cheated. For this reason, app and service developers almost always price their products the same across all platforms. If a service d…

Even if you leave Apple ecosystem, you are still subject to it. Consumers don't like paying different prices based on the platform they are using.

Manufacturers sell things at different prices all of the time. Spotify even sold subscriptions at different prices when they did allow in app subscriptions.

On a side note, I am so surprised that so many people see this as a fight between Apple and developers. They view the Apple tax as something developers pay and thus is developers' problem, not theirs. Like any tax, ultimately, we the consumers end up paying it

Yes consumers pay retailers mark up and not wholesale. News at 11

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#256

Post by scarface74 »

Krasnol wrote: post #134
andrewmutz wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that Apple has a monopoly. The iPhone doesn't even have 50% marketshare in the US, and globally it's significantly less. https://www.counterpointresearch.com/us-market-smartphone-sh... Not only are there alternatives, the alternatives are extremely similar to the iPhone. Another interpretation for users who complain loudly but never switch: it just doesn't bother them that much. It bothers them enough to t…

I assume it refers to this: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/how-antifragile-apple-inc-re... Basically: Apples competitors marketshare concentrates on the lower cost market part while sharing the infrastructure. Apple has it's users locked in to their environment and controls the upper part of the market. Making it not only hard to switch the infrastructure but also keeping the price always as up as necessary/possible…

How does Apple “control” the market? Is Apple forcing users to pay an average of three times more for an iPhone than an Android device? Is it Apple’s fault that Android manufactures+Google can’t come up with a device that people are willing to pay more for?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#257

Post by scarface74 »

jld wrote: post #149
pjmlp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple isn't a monopoly as per law, there are plenty of other device manufacturers to choose from, and in some markets iDevices aren't even available.

The traditional understanding of monopolies does not seem so useful in this case. We live a world where there are two walled gardens that control everything you do. They are both lovely and nice, and you can choose which you pick, but in both, everything you do owned by the landlord. Even how we communicate is controlled, and talking to people in the other garden is degraded. (iMessage and FaceTime). Even if both wal…

Maybe it’s not the “traditional understanding” that’s the problem. Maybe it’s HN users understanding that’s flawed.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#258

Post by scarface74 »

alkonaut wrote: post #120
hkarthik wrote: post #19

If you don’t like how Apple does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how Google does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how either one does business, stop using technology all together. I am being facetious, but mainly to illustrate the point that we now have a series of entrenched monopolies in the tech world so “stop using X” isn’t a realistic solution.

That’s a very cumbersome a way of getting what I want. It’s much better and easier if e.g the EU simply makes Apple do the right thing by force. The market doesn’t solve this kind of problem.

You know this whole capitalist system would be much easier if the government had “5 Year Plans”.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#259

Post by manmal »

jcstauffer wrote: post #98

Unpopular opinion: the 30% that Apple charges includes customer acquisition cost. As a thought experiment, if Hey adds In-App Purchase for subscriptions, but everyone who downloads the app has first signed up for their service due to their marketing methods (an increasing likelihood considering this controversy), then nobody will use the In App Purchase, and Hey will send $0.00 to Apple. If someone discovers the App…

I basically agree with the sentiment that the 30% cut is justified in some situations. But, for convenience, some (many?) people will not sign up on the website, and instad just download the iOS app and do the signup and purchase there. They will pay the "Apple tax" for no reason at all, or simply because the App Store already has their credit card data. And this doesn't really sit right with me.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#260

Post by jonny_eh »

mstolpm wrote: post #163

In my opinion, developers do have the right to articulate critics - be it towards Apple or any other gatekeeper. Just stopping to use/develop for a platform isn't enough. However, I feel the discussion often misses a central point when it is focused on "developers" against "Apple" (or be it Google): the interest of the customer. Of course, a developer wants to maximize return, as wants Apple. But what about the users…

Should Apple ban non App Store apps from Macs too? Doesn't your argument extend to computers? Why would phones or tablets be different.
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