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Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

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Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#291

Post by LatteLazy »

sebazzz wrote: post #288
vertis wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam is a counterexample though. You don't have to deliver your PC game through Steam, and many of the big publishers have opted not to. Both Apple and Steam provide discovery and network effects, which help to justify their cut, but, as Jason Fried mentioned[1], you can't opt-out of these discovery benefits with Apple. [1]: https://twitter.com/jasonfried/status/1273655616897273858?s=...

> You don't have to deliver your PC game through Steam, and many of the big publishers have opted not to. A better analogue would be that you download WoW free from Steam, then take a subscription at Blizzard. Does Steam allow that?

I've uploaded 3rd party CD keys to steam and they've allowed me to download the game (multiple times) and stored my saves etc...

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#292

Post by davidivadavid »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #285
davidivadavid wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you estimate the (non-)fairness of a distribution channel?

Again, they don't provide the channel, once the app is installed. Not the device; not the network; not the content. They just extract money with rules.

Again, they do provide the channel before the app is installed. If you know the economics of acquisition vs. retention you should understand that the former is usually more expensive/valuable than the latter.

I'm perfectly willing to entertain arguments about the right amount Apple should charge for that, but it seems to be an all or nothing discussion, which doesn't seem really sensible to me.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#293

Post by scarface74 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #287
scarface74 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How well did the mobile developers do before the App Store when they tried to peddle their J2ME apps on feature phones? What are the chances that game developers would entice the whales to buy loot boxes and tokens for pay to win games if not for an easy payment method? Does Amazon provide value with the Kindle? Does Valve with Steam? Amazon market place? eBay? The console makers? The theaters don’t bring too much va…

Good examples of stores that don't charge for content delivery outside their premises. They are clearly different in this critical way.

Actually, all of the console makers charge game developers a per game fee no matter where you buy it from.

Roku is infamous for not allowing content distributors (except for Netflix) to be on it unless they get a cut.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/roku-plans-to-block-fox-apps-da...

Hey is free to offer subscriptions at a 43% premium through the App Store and still get its full amount.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#294

Post by ijpsud »

Does iOS support PWAs yet? I'd have thought that PWAs would have all the features required for an email application at this point.

Apparently 20% of Apple's revenue comes from their marketplaces (music, apps, etc), but in terms of profit it's probably significantly higher since the costs ought to be much lower than their hardware.

So it seems like there's a decent chance that at least third of their profit could get wiped out by PWAs in the long run. You'd think they'd be treating developers a little better.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#295

Post by buboard »

_jal wrote: post #131
realtalk_sp wrote: post #120

Some people here seem to be responding to all of this inappropriately. The simple fact is that Apple is injecting itself as an intermediary in the payment process and extracting a preposterously oversized commission for no meaningful added value. And it's easy to see that Apple knows what they're doing is wrong. They strictly prohibit developers from signaling that there's an extra cost for purchases made through App…

I don't disagree. But you do realize you could also be describing the credit card market?

Yes that's why credit card fees were cut by law in the EU to ~0.3%

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#297

Post by ledauphin »

sebazzz wrote: post #288
vertis wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam is a counterexample though. You don't have to deliver your PC game through Steam, and many of the big publishers have opted not to. Both Apple and Steam provide discovery and network effects, which help to justify their cut, but, as Jason Fried mentioned[1], you can't opt-out of these discovery benefits with Apple. [1]: https://twitter.com/jasonfried/status/1273655616897273858?s=...

> You don't have to deliver your PC game through Steam, and many of the big publishers have opted not to. A better analogue would be that you download WoW free from Steam, then take a subscription at Blizzard. Does Steam allow that?

no, again, this would only be a reasonable analogy if there were _any other way_ to download software onto an iOS device, which there is not.

It's not Apple's _dominant_ position as a delivery mechanism that counts - it's their literal monopoly on it.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#298

Post by ledauphin »

ijpsud wrote: post #294

Does iOS support PWAs yet? I'd have thought that PWAs would have all the features required for an email application at this point. Apparently 20% of Apple's revenue comes from their marketplaces (music, apps, etc), but in terms of profit it's probably significantly higher since the costs ought to be much lower than their hardware. So it seems like there's a decent chance that at least third of their profit could get…

my understanding is that their on-device browser monopoly (Safari) cripples many capabilities of PWAs, like for instance push notifications.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#299

Post by [deleted] »

scarface74 wrote: post #162
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #100

The problem is, Apple taking a cut from service where they don't own the device (you bought it from them; you own it) don't provide the network (you contract for that yourself) don't provide the content Its just some kind of strong-arm tactic - they do it because they can. Like some bouncer outside a club who demands money, but is not employed by the club nor the act. Just standing in the door and demanding money, an…

And the console makers? Google Play? The movie theaters? Amazon? Spotify?

[deleted]

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#300

Post by mdlman »

kelnos wrote: post #258
_jal wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do, in fact, make agreements with merchants to lock out other forms of payment. It isn't universal, true. They also contractually forbid merchants from taking actions that could make the fee more apparent to consumers, which drives up prices for non-credit customers, although there isn't a direct analog for Apple I can think of.

> They also contractually forbid merchants from taking actions that could make the fee more apparent to consumers Has this changed over time, though? I often see a lot of brick-and-mortar merchants advertising different prices for cash/debit vs. credit. I probably see it most often at gas stations, but I see it in regular retail stores and restaurants sometimes as well. I moved to a new house earlier this year and ev…

Definitely. In the U.S. at least, there were literally laws in place prohibiting merchants from mentioning credit card surcharges or changing prices accordingly, although details varied by state. Supreme Court ruled against one a few years ago on a free speech basis [1]. Now more, if not all, are being challenged.

[1] https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c1069ffd-dafb... (hopefully the link works)

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