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Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

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Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#41

Post by bad_user »

ageitgey wrote: post #21

I don't think the pressure on Apple is going to let up. Smart phones are no longer a tech toy and have become a literal part of government and commercial infrastructure. Apple's arbitrary power over the platform is pissing off and embarrassing governments in the COVID era. During COVID, governments around the world have been making major decisions based on mobility data from Apple and Google which shows trends of whe…

I don't think it's OK to conflate the two issues.

Whether it's OK for Apple to keep those APIs private, that's a debate we can have, but it's not the same thing as the highway robbery they are doing with app developers.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#42

Post by bgarbiak »

sooheon wrote: post #18
Hamuko wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are we establishing that if you want to create a paid email service with a custom app without wanting to pay 30% of your revenue to Apple, you need to create a competing mobile ecosystem that can rival that of Apple's ($260 billion yearly revenue) and Google's ($162 billion yearly revenue)? How is this beneficial for innovation and for consumers?

What's beneficial for consumers is the fact that the Apple ecosystem exists at all. People pay because it's a good experience. Everyone is welcome to create good end-user experiences with open technologies like PWA, and distribute however they wish. It's strange to me to say on the one hand "we could not survive without the iOS customer pool, we need to make a native app because it's the greatest experience, but we d…

I believe no one actually says "we don't want to pay", it's more like "we don't want to pay 30% of our income".

I could eventually live with a one-time 30% tax, but taking that much for a recurring payments? Calling it a highway robbery is totally on point.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#43

Post by deltron3030 »

Larrikin wrote: post #3

As much as I agree with the stance against I hate the coverage and the press this is getting with people evangelicizing the CEO. He's regularly referenced on this site by his initials (which even as a regular reader of tech news I had to look up) which comes across as cult of personality at best and astroturfing at worse.

He actually is a kind of cult personality in the tech world because he wrote Ruby on Rails (which itself was kind of contrarian to most other things in that space), and it's the foundation lots of web software startups are build on. There would be no Twitter or Github without him.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#44

Post by lilyball »

rydre wrote: post #39
treebornfrog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree that Apple should bend over backwards. IMO contact tracing opens up a new can of worms and is a doorway to more draconian measures that will erode privacy for private citizens.

The leaders elected by the citizens or a different way of governance of other sovereign countries have the right to decide what is best for their citizens. American companies should not try to impose their moral values on others. Many eastern cultures do not value privacy as much as you guys do, and it's fine.

Many people who buy Apple products do so because of Apple’s privacy stance. Just because the government wants to violate its citizens’ privacy doesn’t mean its citizens want that.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#45

Post by newbie578 »

Apple has over 50% marketshare in the U.S. in the mobile market, so by marketshare they have a case for a monopoly.

So for 150 million people Apple are the Gatekeepers, you have to pay the Troll it's fee or it won't let you past.

And people here are saying if you don't like Apple, don't make apps for iOS? Please try to do a business project in a market where you ignore 50% of the market and let me know how you fair out :)

Jason Freid of BaseCamp gave a good argument: If you are handling the search, marketing and production of the app by yourself, why do you STILL need to pay the 30% tax? Imagine paying AWS 30% of your revenue just for hosting privileges :)

And don't forget that even IF you try to make the argument for hosting, they are hosting the app on Apple Store because Apple doesn't allow ANOTHER way of downloading an app. This is a really important fact. Imagine if you used Windows and you couldn't download programs except over Windows Store. Just try to imagine Windows not allowing Steam to distribute over the web...

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#46

Post by sooheon »

apexalpha wrote: post #38
sooheon wrote: post #10

Apple may be robbers, but they're not trolling a public highway, they're demanding fees if you want to drive on the highway that they built. Build a better ecosystem around better devices, better software, better marketing, and better services, and you can also charge whatever you want, or make it free. That is competition. Wanting to drive on someone else's walled highway (which leads directly to eyeballs and open w…

Apple literally shutting down NFC for everyone in the world except for their own payment method is what I would call the 180 degree opposite of 'That is competition'. That's abuse, and it is more and more clear every day, both in Google, Apple as well as other such as Amazon that it's really not fair for the owners of the platforms to also compete with their customers on their own platforms.

It's their devices, they can add or remove features as they see fit imo. If they make enough choices that negatively impact user experience, there will be a vacuum for a better offering.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#47

Post by millstone »

0xy wrote: post #9

If you could choose between a fee decrease to 15% or the ability to sideload apps bypassing the store, which is more important? To me, the only reason I avoid iOS is specifically because I cannot install my own apps without using the store.

The high order bit is the inconsistent, capricious nature of the app review process. Hey attempted to participate in the established detente of "paid service, can't buy it here, wink wink" and Apple somehow decided this was the time to squeeze.

Clear, consistently enforced App Store rules, from a perspective of Apple desiring the best apps possible.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#48

Post by Apocryphon »

Hamuko wrote: post #34
sjwright wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that it is not possible to publish an application on the Apple App Store without paying. Period end. I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that the same is true for games on the Xbox, PlayStation and nearly every mainstream games console for the past thirty years. Pretty much every games console software title included a healthy cut for N…

> Where was your outrage then? Where was the game publishers' outrage? Where was the game developers' outrage? Gaming console makers and game developers have way better relations than Apple and the people developing for the App Store. And the game console makers' cut isn't just pure greed. Sony took an estimate loss of $240-$300 on every PS3 sold at launch just in order to widen out the install base.

Microsoft lost money for each Xbox they sold for multiple generations of Xboxes.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#49

Post by sjwright »

Hamuko wrote: post #34
sjwright wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that it is not possible to publish an application on the Apple App Store without paying. Period end. I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that the same is true for games on the Xbox, PlayStation and nearly every mainstream games console for the past thirty years. Pretty much every games console software title included a healthy cut for N…

> Where was your outrage then? Where was the game publishers' outrage? Where was the game developers' outrage? Gaming console makers and game developers have way better relations than Apple and the people developing for the App Store. And the game console makers' cut isn't just pure greed. Sony took an estimate loss of $240-$300 on every PS3 sold at launch just in order to widen out the install base.

> Where was the game publishers' outrage?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade

> Gaming console makers and game developers have way better relations

Let's set aside the unproven assumptions; so your logic is that if you're a nice platform monopolist, you can charge arbitrary platform access fees. But if you're a bunch of meanies, different laws shall apply to you. I'm sorry, I was under the misapprehension that you were making a serious point.

> Sony took an estimate loss of $240-$300 on every PS3

Now I know you're not being serious. Such behaviours are anti-competitive as it would be exceedingly difficult for a new market entrant to compete with such artificially low console prices. What you're saying is that the US Government should enact laws which favour dumping and loss-leader activity. Ridiculous.

Re: Apple’s App Store fees are ‘highway robbery’ – House antitrust committee chair

#50

Post by jjcon »

rydre wrote: post #39
treebornfrog wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree that Apple should bend over backwards. IMO contact tracing opens up a new can of worms and is a doorway to more draconian measures that will erode privacy for private citizens.

The leaders elected by the citizens or a different way of governance of other sovereign countries have the right to decide what is best for their citizens. American companies should not try to impose their moral values on others. Many eastern cultures do not value privacy as much as you guys do, and it's fine.

> The leaders of other sovereign countries have the right to decide what is best for their citizens... companies should not try to impose their moral values on others

Not op but I agree with this (within reason) having said that I don’t really think this is a moral export from Apple, more just a desire for control. I don’t think this desire is totally a bad thing (it can enable very good and consistent ux) but there is definitely a line they are walking.

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