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Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

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Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#131

Post by _jal »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #120

Some people here seem to be responding to all of this inappropriately. The simple fact is that Apple is injecting itself as an intermediary in the payment process and extracting a preposterously oversized commission for no meaningful added value. And it's easy to see that Apple knows what they're doing is wrong. They strictly prohibit developers from signaling that there's an extra cost for purchases made through App…

I don't disagree.

But you do realize you could also be describing the credit card market?

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#132

Post by scarface74 »

justrudd wrote: post #112
scarface74 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn’t. https://www.macrumors.com/2018/12/28/netflix-no-more-itunes-... Edit: I usually don’t comment on downvotes but what the hell? https://help.netflix.com/en/node/25097 iTunes billing for Netflix is not available to new or rejoining Netflix customers. If you are attempting to create an account on an iOS mobile device, you can sign up on Netflix.com using a mobile browser and will be prompted to provide an…

https://imgur.com/a/t6AqwEx That's what the App Store shows me...

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/25097

iTunes billing for Netflix is not available to new or rejoining Netflix customers.

If you are attempting to create an account on an iOS mobile device, you can sign up on Netflix.com using a mobile browser and will be prompted to provide an alternate method of payment.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#133

Post by sam_lowry_ »

paxys wrote: post #101
samwillis wrote: post #83

If Apple are taking issue with this being a “consumer” email service, Fastmail[0] have exactly the same setup, download the app but have to go to website (no direct links) to signup and pay. How is it not also blocked? My only thoughts are that fastmail is also accessible through imap and has corporate accounts with centralised billing. If Basecamp add company accounts to Hay, which they have always said is coming la…

Heck if we're talking about inconsistency we don't even have to look at other apps. Apple itself already approved Hey (and it is in the App Store right now), but is now rejecting updates, simply because it got assigned to a different agent this time around.

This time, the agent is Tim Cook.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#134

Post by realtalk_sp »

Despegar wrote: post #129
realtalk_sp wrote: post #120

Some people here seem to be responding to all of this inappropriately. The simple fact is that Apple is injecting itself as an intermediary in the payment process and extracting a preposterously oversized commission for no meaningful added value. And it's easy to see that Apple knows what they're doing is wrong. They strictly prohibit developers from signaling that there's an extra cost for purchases made through App…

>The simple fact is that Apple is injecting itself as an intermediary in the payment process and extracting a comically oversized commission for no meaningful added value. Frankly anyone who says this with a straight face is being absurd. Apple's commission isn't for "payment processing", promotion, any particular API, or service they provide on their platform. That they do all of those things makes it an attractive…

> They charge 30% because they've amassed 1 billion extremely valuable users who are willing to spend money on apps in their marketplace.

Apps that are made up to 42% more expensive (NOTE: the 30% fee applies to all in-app purchases and the first year of subscriptions) in a way that's entirely opaque to those users. The fact that you think this is okay is the only thing I find absurd.

You also seem like someone who is for some reason predisposed to be an apologist for Apple's monopolistic business practices. You certainly don't represent what would likely be the average/majority sentiment of Apple's customers, were they sufficiently informed.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#135

Post by evan_ »

scarface74 wrote: post #125
evan_ wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're gonna use him for your argument you can listen to Marco's actual thoughts about this on the episode of Accidental Tech Podcast that dropped today, I won't spoil it but he's not on board.

I didn’t say he was onboard with the decision. I am not onboard with the decision. I said it’s a gross exaggeration to think a competent iOS developer couldn’t get in app purchasing working in an evening.

Turning on the Wallet entitlement will take like 10 seconds, I don't know how long it'll take to build the rest of the subscription stuff but probably not a long time. You're ignoring that they are going to have to update all of their backend billing code to support two different billing providers, and design and build a mobile onboarding flow in the app. Then they have to support those things going forward.

They obviously knew that Apple Pay subscriptions were an option when they were whiteboarding the product, and they decided to not do them. That says to me that they weighed the options, did some math, and decided that the numbers worked better if they didn't spend time on that, and kept 100% of the money.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#136

Post by scarface74 »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #119
scarface74 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything none free about either?

You can buy a subscription to remove ads in the latter and add storage in the former.

Yahoo mail has a 99 cent in app purchase according to the page in the App Store.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#137

Post by Hamuko »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #134
Despegar wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The simple fact is that Apple is injecting itself as an intermediary in the payment process and extracting a comically oversized commission for no meaningful added value. Frankly anyone who says this with a straight face is being absurd. Apple's commission isn't for "payment processing", promotion, any particular API, or service they provide on their platform. That they do all of those things makes it an attractive…

> They charge 30% because they've amassed 1 billion extremely valuable users who are willing to spend money on apps in their marketplace. Apps that are made up to 42% more expensive (NOTE: the 30% fee applies to all in-app purchases and the first year of subscriptions) in a way that's entirely opaque to those users. The fact that you think this is okay is the only thing I find absurd. You also seem like someone who i…

>Apps that are made up to 42% more expensive

Well, maybe not apps, but subscriptions surely.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#138

Post by donmcronald »

ggregoire wrote: post #60

Why does Basecamp refuse (?) to add the in-app subscription? Is it only to avoid sharing their revenues with Apple or are there other reasons? (sorry I'm not that familiar with this topic and didn't follow the whole story)

30% (then 15% forever) of revenue is a huge amount of money. If Hey thinks they're following the rules and the app got approved the first time, Hey might already be committed to pricing that's going to be hard to change. It could break their business model.

It's also really obvious it's nothing more than rent seeking because Apple adds almost no value. The infrastructure for payments, updates, etc. on other platforms is still needed, so I'm sure the only reason they're even using the Apple app store is because it's the only way to distribute their app. 15% of lifetime revenue for Apple to host some update files is a really bad deal.

IMHO if Apple approved it "by mistake" the first time they should have just owned the mistake and granted Hey a one-off exemption from the rules.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#139

Post by nrmitchi »

_jal wrote: post #131
realtalk_sp wrote: post #120

Some people here seem to be responding to all of this inappropriately. The simple fact is that Apple is injecting itself as an intermediary in the payment process and extracting a preposterously oversized commission for no meaningful added value. And it's easy to see that Apple knows what they're doing is wrong. They strictly prohibit developers from signaling that there's an extra cost for purchases made through App…

I don't disagree. But you do realize you could also be describing the credit card market?

I think most people understand that the parent could be describing credit card markets, and I don't think that anyone is trying to make the case that credit card companies don't also take anti-competitive actions.

But the typical credit card fee is ~3%, which is literally an order of magnitude less, and Visa/Mastercard/etc also don't prohibit their merchants from accepting other forms of payment.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#140

Post by scarface74 »

arnvald wrote: post #106
scarface74 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very unclear. The rule has been that you cannot advertise that it requires a subscription or provide a link. There are literally a dozen apps that I am personally aware of that require subscriptions and don’t allow in app subscriptions. - Netflix - Sling TV - ATT Now (DirecTVNow) - ACloudGuru - Kindle - Youtube TV - Spotify - Microsoft Office - Hulu Live TV (not regular Hulu)

It seems that most of the above either offer some features for free or offer in-app purchases: * Spotify offers free tier * Kindle doesn't require buying books, technically you can use it to read documents that you send to your free account * Netflix and Youtube allow to subscribe and pay via app-store I'm not sure about the rest, but it seems that even Netflix and Amazon follow the rules.

Netflix doesn’t allow in app purchases anymore.

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/25097

iTunes billing for Netflix is not available to new or rejoining Netflix customers.

If you are attempting to create an account on an iOS mobile device, you can sign up on Netflix.com using a mobile browser and will be prompted to provide an alternate method of payment.

Neither does Youtube Live.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/13/21136730/youtube-tv-endin...

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