For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business • Hacker News Board

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#771

Post by the_omegist » Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #528

jlawson wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The diversity industry is worth $8 billion per year these days. So... yeah. (Also FYI, it's not about opposing institutional bias, it's about signaling and corporate power games.)

And for some strange reason, for equal-rights activists it is abad thing to make a living and earn money fighting for these rights. The usual argument is always "they are paid to further an agenda", indirectly undermining the message, the messanger and the issue at hand. This doesn't seem to aplly for the otherside. People like Alex Jones make a load of money representing the opposite opinion. For him, making money a…

No. It's perfectly fine (and even amazing) to make a living from a cause that is important to you.

But it's disingenuous to believe that activists 1) will not see what "obsess" them everywhere (that's a common psychological bias) and 2) will not try to make their cause as important as they can by inflating the numbers.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#772

Post by the_omegist » Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 3:43 PM UTC

taurath wrote: post #767

blub wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said "most of it is showing white people that all the things that we've tried over the past 10, 20 years are clearly not working. There's little improvement in inclusiveness in traditional white/male dominated cultures, such as the engineering teams at FAANGs for instance." The US is an immigration society where many white people from countries which weren't involved in US slavery and now they're all painted with…

We as Americans live in a society were responsible for. We as managers, owners and employees are responsible for the culture of the companies we own. A Russian who moved here in 1998 certainly didn’t have anything to do with racism. But he is participating in a society that claims to be a just one, in which he will get preferential treatment over a Black person just because the color of his skin. Is that his fault? N…

That sounds like some cult thinking. Collective responsibility by just doing nothing? By virtue of your genetics at birth ?

Then you're responsible for the climate problem, the extermination of native Americans, the Vietnamese death, the Iraqi deaths, etc... ? From what you preached you can only answer "yes" to all these. Then : what do you do to make amends for all those horrible crimes?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#773

Post by callmeal » Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #494

dgb23 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people. This is a huge part of the problem isn't it? I believe these painful interactions would be much less common if tech culture were more diverse in the first place. Women share a similar fate. Whenever I hear some of these stories I cringe. Some of them are surprising/shocking even. But this seems important. Hearing those storie…

> This is a huge part of the problem isn't it? I think this is the problem. Say a black guy with gold teeth, tons of tattoos and colorful dreadlocks and a middle aged white guy walk in. One of them is a rapper. Who is it? Based on experience, most people will certainly assume the black guy is. What if it turns out it’s the white guy? Are they unconsciously racist against white people or are they just following experi…

>Are they unconsciously racist against white people

That is not possible in this country.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#774

Post by the_omegist » Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 3:51 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #500

throwaway_jobs wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m in Australia and I think these are largely US concepts. Based on that statement alone I think I can accurately conclude you are not an indigenous Australian (aboriginal). Seems they share quiet a lot in common with native Americans from stealing of their lands/displacement, mass killings, enslavement By colonists, to ongoing racism that continues to carry on today.

American concepts around these things are not based on native Americans history, but on African American history. It is true that Americans tend to project own culture and history into other groups and then get offended when those tell them "wait our history and prejudices are different". Even more, Americans assume that sexism elsewhere must be the same as sexism in America. They just seems to be completely confused…

Yeah. It's funny how the pro-diversity, pro-egalitarianism, etc don't see their ideological blind spot when they use the same tools (propaganda and medias) to propagate their views of society, and what is Good and Wrong, in the same imperialist way as their conservative ennemis ...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#775

Post by the_omegist » Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 3:54 PM UTC

wolco wrote: post #240

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The video you linked espouses the same ideas. To be anti-racist isn't to simply understand the things one can and cannot say. To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power. It's akin to just memorizing a list of microagressions like curse words and never saying them for fear of being fired. Anti-racism provides the tools t…

What does understanding one community extremely well have to do with anti-racism? Anti-racism is being against making judgement based on race. Nothing more. No laundry list of buzz words or actions. Understanding 'the Black community' doesn't even make sense at all. Like all Black people are part of this community where if you truly understand and experience the worst pain only then you can start to find racism in so…

Exactly. And the irony is that by saying such things, they essentialize black people, denying their individual qualities, merits and experiences...like you know...back in the slavery days...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#776

Post by greenhatglack » Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

eyelidlessness wrote: post #452

greenhatglack wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of money to be made in "anti-racism" and "gender-science", especially in tax-heavy countries. No one ever dares to question it, and it's "good" causes that could use some of the workers income. I'll be contrarian and recommend Thomas Sowell's "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" instead.

Ah yes, the widely known and widely invested capital pursuit of opposing institutional bias. Definitely the big money

You assume some sort of industry I’m talking

Well-off white women from elite colleges run the diversity-and-sensitivity racket like the 17th-century Dutch ran the tulip racket, like the De Beers cartel used to run diamonds. They’re is getting paid.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/the-revolution-comfor...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#777

Post by P-ala-din » Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 3:58 PM UTC

bmn__ wrote: post #762

P-ala-din wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not have any sympathy for immigrants refusing to integrate? what do you mean by integrate? are immigrants allowed to speak their native tongue, dress differently or act differently? does Integration to you mean the complete erasure of their past identities? because that what the German in the pub seems to think.

> what do you mean by integrate? […] what the German in the pub seems to think Don't you have sociology classes or political education in school? I just looked up the word to make sure and it turns out its meaning is almost the same to what I remembered, and it certainly is not a complete erasure as you allude to. Nice straw man, though. Man, must it be satisfying to topple it over!

> Don't you have sociology classes or political education in school?

yes, I've had an overly technical education but I fail to see how that's relevant.

> I just looked up the word to make sure

I feel like you misread my argument. "seems to think" means that I don't agree with him. Some people, including the person that this thread-tree is about (in my opinion) use integration when they mean cultural erasure. (aka assimilation)

if people speaking/dressing differently in a train implies that they are not integrated (according to him). Than integration (according to him) implies that people do not speak/dress differently which I see as cultural erasure.

And from my own experience, I've been told by a Turkish friend that he received cold stares and was yelled at for speaking Turkish with his daughter in public transportation (out of concern for her integration). Although, it's a common technique for each parent to speak a single language when you want to raise a bilingual child.

and honestly, it's not that novel of an idea:

- "In fact, integration has become a code word in some circles for intolerance and discrimination" - The Emerging Monoculture: Assimilation and the "model Minority" De William E et al

- 'the older völkish notion of German national identity lurks behind calls for acculturation as a condition for social acceptance.In contemporary Germany, "integration" is a codeword for cultural assimilation, with a strong emphasis on learning the majority language and history.' - From the Bonn to the Berlin Republic: Germany at the Twentieth Anniversary of Unification. Jeffrey J. Anderson. Eric Langenbacher.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#778

Post by the_omegist » Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 4:01 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #545

hindsightbias wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can assure you that many older professional white men are conciously avoiding 1:1 interactions with women (moreso those under 40) and minorities in the workplace today. It would be dumb to assume this doesn’t impact managers hiring decisions, conciously or unconciously. Olds can just think of it as culture fit.

If true, it says a lot more about the men than anything else.

Oh : acting in your best interests is "telling", so?

Strange : society and "systems" are responsible for everything when it's about certain people but individuality and personal responsibility are the reason when it's other type of people...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#779

Post by the_omegist » Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 4:09 PM UTC

JustinVx wrote: post #478

johnisgood wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But inferring that someone isn't the CEO because they're black? I'm sorry, but that's racism pure and simple. If I were to meet/know/whatever 100 CEOs and 99% of them were not black and for example wore an expensive suit in a specific setting/environment, then is it racist to assume (based on my past experiences) that a particular black person wearing an expensive suit in this particular setting/environment is not…

You’re making a value judgement based on skin color. That’s racism. Even if you don’t have bad intentions, the black person in your example suffers because of it.

That's newspeak. Racism is treating people based on their skin color intentionally and hierarchizing them based on their race. There is an intention.

What a person feels is subjective and has nothing to do with what the other person intended to do. As you can't be in other people's head (except if you have that pretension ?) the only thing that matters is what your intention were.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#780

Post by the_omegist » Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 4:15 PM UTC

Pfhreak wrote: post #232

Thorentis wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism absolutely does imply intent. The attempt by progressives to recharacterise racism as something that it is not, is the reason why they are making less progress in their objectives than they would like. It is not racist to assume that the person in the room most like the other CEOs you have met, is also the CEO. If I was in a foreign country, I would assume the CEO is the person most like the other people in th…

> Racism absolutely does imply intent. I'm sorry, but your opinion here does not match with either practical, common, or academic definitions for racism. People have internal biases all the time that cause them to be averse to particular racial groups -- particularly disadvantaged racial groups. They may not even realize they are doing it, but that doesn't mean that it's not racist. (For example, resumes with White n…

Racism originally was based on intent. That modern US "academics" decided to turn every people into racists doesn't change it.

In your study about hair : was it also done between chinese and indians, indians & eskimos and eskimos and swedish people? Because what those US academics brilliantly "discovered" is that people are more at ease with people that look like them. If you want to call it racist, at least have the honesty to attribute it to all human beings.