For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business • Hacker News Board

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#231

Post by callmeal » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 11:31 PM UTC

lesstenseflow wrote: post #186

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The video you linked espouses the same ideas. To be anti-racist isn't to simply understand the things one can and cannot say. To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power. It's akin to just memorizing a list of microagressions like curse words and never saying them for fear of being fired. Anti-racism provides the tools t…

> To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power. I thought “fundamentally understanding the lived experiences of the black community” was impossible for non-black people. What white person has achieved this goal? If none, is it impossible for a white person to be “anti-racist?” I acknowledge racism is a real issue but thin…

>What white person has achieved this goal?

I know at least one person who has.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/oct/27/black-like-me-...

I know it's not possible for everyone to do what John Howard Griffin did, but reading that book and living that experience vicariously can be a start.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#232

Post by Pfhreak » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 11:31 PM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #189

Pfhreak wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stereotyping and racism are not mutually exclusive. In this case, people are making inferences that the BIPOC is not the CEO. Racism doesn't imply intent either. It absolutely can be the case that someone unknowingly makes a racist inference even with the best of intentions.

Racism absolutely does imply intent. The attempt by progressives to recharacterise racism as something that it is not, is the reason why they are making less progress in their objectives than they would like. It is not racist to assume that the person in the room most like the other CEOs you have met, is also the CEO. If I was in a foreign country, I would assume the CEO is the person most like the other people in th…

> Racism absolutely does imply intent.

I'm sorry, but your opinion here does not match with either practical, common, or academic definitions for racism.

People have internal biases all the time that cause them to be averse to particular racial groups -- particularly disadvantaged racial groups. They may not even realize they are doing it, but that doesn't mean that it's not racist. (For example, resumes with White names are more likely to receive callbacks than those with Black names. There may be no intent by the resume reviewer.)

Another example, asking to touch a Black stranger's hair is othering, which is a type of racist behavior. The person asking usually isn't intending to be racist, and is 'just' trying to satisfy their own curiosity. There's no ill intent, but that doesn't mean it's OK.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#233

Post by dang » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 11:32 PM UTC

haecceity wrote: post #219

In this thread hacker news proves the article right. Head desk.

HN reflects the society at large, so of course it proves the article right in that sense. Otherwise the article wouldn't be about the world. Any divisive topic is going to show up as divisive in any large-enough population sample. But there are at least as many comments pointing the opposite way—more, in fact, but we tend to notice the ones we dislike, and to weight them more heavily: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que....

You're probably experiencing the problem I wrote about here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23308098. The fact that HN is a non-siloed site causes people to run into things here that they don't run into elsewhere, and it creates a shock reaction.

I bet you're particularly running into the international aspect, which is so much more influential on these perceptions than anybody realizes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23438403. The way people approach this topic in other countries is not at all the way Americans approach it. In particular, arguments that would make Americans wince (or "head desk", as you put it) are obliviously unobjectionable to users in other places, and those users have zero idea about the conventions they're breaking in an American context, or how inflammatory they are. It pains me to see these misunderstandings, but what can we do. "Excuse me, but the person you're disagreeing with is actually posting from $country, to judge by their IP"? Out of the question.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#234

Post by GaryNumanVevo » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 11:32 PM UTC

lesstenseflow wrote: post #186

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The video you linked espouses the same ideas. To be anti-racist isn't to simply understand the things one can and cannot say. To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power. It's akin to just memorizing a list of microagressions like curse words and never saying them for fear of being fired. Anti-racism provides the tools t…

> To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power. I thought “fundamentally understanding the lived experiences of the black community” was impossible for non-black people. What white person has achieved this goal? If none, is it impossible for a white person to be “anti-racist?” I acknowledge racism is a real issue but thin…

Fundamental being the key operative here. Understanding the Black lived experience is an approximation of the actual experience. Of course there's no singular Black experience, but there are fundamentals underlying all, which can be understood and approximated by people with non-Black lived experiences.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#235

Post by refurb » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 11:32 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #35

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

That's stereotyping, not racism. People make inferences. Like, if there's two folks, one dressed in a suit, the other in baggy clothes with thick glasses, most people (including VCs) would default to the former as the MBA CEO, and the latter as geek CTO Even though it might be the exact opposite! If you make a wrong inference, just accept the correction and move on, no hurt feelings. Similar for old vs. young.

This is what my concern with the focus on race is. You may commit an act that appears racist, when in fact it wasn't at all.

An example:

- I run into a white friend and call him Dave (another white guy I know), when his name is Mark. It happens, I apologize as I'm terrible with names.

- I run into a black friend and call him Dave (another black guy I know), when his name is Mark. It happens, I apologize as I'm terrible with names.

In the 2nd instance, you can guarantee someone will accuse me of bring racist.

Basically, people make mistakes and say rude things all the time. But throw race in there and suddenly everything is viewed in the worst possible light.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#236

Post by pchristensen » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 11:34 PM UTC

analyst74 wrote: post #102

> the simple phrase ‘Black Lives Matter’ is seen as a political dog whistle, rather than a desperate cry to bring attention to a dire situation that many people choose not to see.” A little off-topic, but I notice a lot of the "All Lives Matter" people are mistaking the term "Black Lives Matter" as valuing black lives over others. I wonder if "Black Lives Matter Too" would convey its message better.

I have found that people replying with "All Lives Matter" are willfully trying to not understand where BLM is coming from. I've seen it so consistently, in so many contexts, from so many different people that I can't consider it a misunderstanding. It's more at the level of "I know you are but what am I."

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#237

Post by GaryNumanVevo » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 11:35 PM UTC

Avicebron wrote: post #170

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The video you linked espouses the same ideas. To be anti-racist isn't to simply understand the things one can and cannot say. To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power. It's akin to just memorizing a list of microagressions like curse words and never saying them for fear of being fired. Anti-racism provides the tools t…

> Anti-racism provides the tools to contextualize and understand why certain phrases are racist or biased. Can you expand on this a little bit? It sounds a lot like: >It's akin to just memorizing a list of microagressions like curse words and never saying them for fear of being fired With extra steps. What are these tools and how do they avoid accidentally putting the cart in front of the horse in terms of goals vs.…

It's the difference between actually understanding what makes something offensive, and not just the knowledge that it is offensive.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#238

Post by GaryNumanVevo » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 11:38 PM UTC

callmeal wrote: post #231

lesstenseflow wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power. I thought “fundamentally understanding the lived experiences of the black community” was impossible for non-black people. What white person has achieved this goal? If none, is it impossible for a white person to be “anti-racist?” I acknowledge racism is a real issue but thin…

>What white person has achieved this goal? I know at least one person who has. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/oct/27/black-like-me-... I know it's not possible for everyone to do what John Howard Griffin did, but reading that book and living that experience vicariously can be a start.

I don't think that's the best example. How does one separate: "They're treating me poorly because I'm a black person" and "They're treating me poorly because I'm a white guy trying to be a black person"

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#239

Post by brentis » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 11:38 PM UTC

So I get there are not a lot of black CEOs. Unsure what this means or the cause. As a board member I want the smartest and most talented person to run my business with low risk. Quantify that. Also, I'm confused when I hear that only 7% of tech jobs are black people, but 70% of basketball and football teams are black. Yet regardless 10% of population is black. Scientifically speaking... Given facts on IQ, we are probably most racist against Asian CEOs in US as they have the highest IQs on avg (106), followed by Jewish people, then Caucasian (97). This group is supposedly enlightened and factual - so...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#240

Post by wolco » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 11:39 PM UTC

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #118

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's more a guide on "how not to get fired for being racist" than anything. I admit I only just started reading her book, so can't comment on that, but I would say that's not the takeaway I got from any of the online videos or interviews I've seen of her, most definit…

The video you linked espouses the same ideas. To be anti-racist isn't to simply understand the things one can and cannot say. To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power. It's akin to just memorizing a list of microagressions like curse words and never saying them for fear of being fired. Anti-racism provides the tools t…

What does understanding one community extremely well have to do with anti-racism?

Anti-racism is being against making judgement based on race. Nothing more. No laundry list of buzz words or actions.

Understanding 'the Black community' doesn't even make sense at all. Like all Black people are part of this community where if you truly understand and experience the worst pain only then you can start to find racism in society and yourself.

Racism can come from anyone and be directed to anyone or group.