Chameleon - UIKit for Mac development • Hacker News Board

Re: Chameleon - UIKit for Mac development

#11

Post by gte910h » Tue, Mar 22, 2011, 7:13 PM UTC

shaggyfrog wrote: post #8

glhaynes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be useful for lots of folks that know UIKit inside and out but haven't dealt with AppKit before.

But a Mac's interface is not an iOS interface. There are different constraints and different best practices, and sometimes completely different widgets. To make a decent UI, you have to understand the native platform.

Sometimes perfect is the enemy of the good.

The ability of a stopgap measure such as this is a good way to let established iOS players test the Mac waters without a huge investment.

Re: Chameleon - UIKit for Mac development

#12

Post by gte910h » Tue, Mar 22, 2011, 7:14 PM UTC

pohl wrote: post #5

Of course, Apple executives may change their priorities when they see how many developers are interested in a tool like Chameleon. Many people have speculated that the popularity of the Jailbreak SDK accelerated the release of the original iPhone SDK. It would be great if history repeated itself. Great, so they're trying to position themselves to take credit for what may be inevitable.

Or they're trying to work to make the future possible.

I'm sure lots of things are inevitable too, doesn't mean you don't laud the person who actually brings it about.

Re: Chameleon - UIKit for Mac development

#13

Post by shaggyfrog » Tue, Mar 22, 2011, 7:15 PM UTC

christo16 wrote: post #2

Definitely a cool, will make porting iOS apps easier. However, a lot of the ideas in UIKit are meant for a touchscreen and wont translate well.

This is what I was trying to say, but it's much more concise. Thank you :)

Re: Chameleon - UIKit for Mac development

#14

Post by gte910h » Tue, Mar 22, 2011, 7:16 PM UTC

mhd wrote: post #7

Right after opening, the app store seemed flooded with programs that had UIs that clearly showed their iOS heritage. And I've yet to see a singly one where this actually is good (no, Twitter for Mac isn't one). Going further along this road doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Yes, you'll save some time. But unless you're making a throwaway, gimmicky application, you'd better invest some time in creating a new GUI th…

There is huge value in "throwaway" applications.

The decision to spend considerable time to even test the Mac market is a huge barrier to entry. This would be a good stepping stone to prove that there is an audience there.

Re: Chameleon - UIKit for Mac development

#15

Post by joshaber » Tue, Mar 22, 2011, 7:25 PM UTC

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #4

Fascinating idea, but as also mentioned in the article: won't Apple do something similar? There are way more iOS developers than there are Mac developers, and many more flock to the iOS platform every day. Surely, Apple has some incentive to make it easy for iOS developers to make software for the Mac. From the article: Apple already has a version of UIKit that runs on the Mac: every time you launch the iOS Simulator…

I know right? You'd think Apple would do this themselves but for some reason they haven't show any interest. Especially weird considering AppKit is so old and crufty.

Re: Chameleon - UIKit for Mac development

#16

Post by joshaber » Tue, Mar 22, 2011, 7:27 PM UTC

shaggyfrog wrote: post #3

I really don't get the point of this at all. When I've ported iPhone apps to iPad (i.e. make them Universal) there was always little-to-no work to do on the underlying model classes, but always a lot of work to do designing new views since the UI model is so much different (mainly from the bigger screen). Same deal with Mac OS X, except the UI changes are even more extreme. If I want my iOS app to work on a Mac's scr…

But AppKit is pretty awful. I'm much more interested in Chameleon as a Core Animation-based replacement for AppKit than as an easy way to port iOS apps.

Re: Chameleon - UIKit for Mac development

#17

Post by joshaber » Tue, Mar 22, 2011, 7:30 PM UTC

christo16 wrote: post #2

Definitely a cool, will make porting iOS apps easier. However, a lot of the ideas in UIKit are meant for a touchscreen and wont translate well.

Sure but it's all in how you use it. Not everything comes over cleanly but a lot does. AppKit is old and crufty and doesn't play well with Core Animation. Since Chameleon is Core Animation-based, it's already off to a better start than AppKit.

Re: Chameleon - UIKit for Mac development

#18

Post by pohl » Tue, Mar 22, 2011, 7:44 PM UTC

ugh wrote: post #10

pohl wrote: post #5

Of course, Apple executives may change their priorities when they see how many developers are interested in a tool like Chameleon. Many people have speculated that the popularity of the Jailbreak SDK accelerated the release of the original iPhone SDK. It would be great if history repeated itself. Great, so they're trying to position themselves to take credit for what may be inevitable.

Aren’t you way too cynical?

I guess i should say: Chameleon looks great, and I applaud their work. I just pulled the only quotation that peeved me.

In regards to your question, cynicism involves a belief about someone's motivations, and I'm only going off of what they have put in black & white: that it would be so awesome if they were able to repeat the most spectacularly dubious credit-taking in iPhone history. I realize that those 4 months between the availability of the first iPhone and the announcement of the official SDK were agonizing and suspenseful, but I don't believe for a second that the most notoriously secretive tech company didn't already have an SDK in the works. If I were iconfactory, I wouldn't labor to connect myself with that event.

Re: Chameleon - UIKit for Mac development

#19

Post by scrod » Tue, Mar 22, 2011, 8:03 PM UTC

glhaynes wrote: post #6

shaggyfrog wrote: post #3

I really don't get the point of this at all. When I've ported iPhone apps to iPad (i.e. make them Universal) there was always little-to-no work to do on the underlying model classes, but always a lot of work to do designing new views since the UI model is so much different (mainly from the bigger screen). Same deal with Mac OS X, except the UI changes are even more extreme. If I want my iOS app to work on a Mac's scr…

It could be useful for lots of folks that know UIKit inside and out but haven't dealt with AppKit before.

>It could be useful for lots of folks that know UIKit inside and out ...

Then they'll have a very easy time picking up AppKit — certainly much easier than someone coming from any other platform would have, mobile or desktop. The lineage from AppKit is supposed to be one of the advantages of UIKit. These frameworks are very similar.

Re: Chameleon - UIKit for Mac development

#20

Post by joshaber » Tue, Mar 22, 2011, 8:07 PM UTC

scrod wrote: post #19

glhaynes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be useful for lots of folks that know UIKit inside and out but haven't dealt with AppKit before.

>It could be useful for lots of folks that know UIKit inside and out ... Then they'll have a very easy time picking up AppKit — certainly much easier than someone coming from any other platform would have, mobile or desktop. The lineage from AppKit is supposed to be one of the advantages of UIKit. These frameworks are very similar.

AppKit and UIKit aren't at all similar. And they aren't related. UIKit was written from the ground up for iOS and is based on Core Animation. AppKit was written by NeXSTEP and is based on software rendering with dirty rects.