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Religion may become extinct in nine nations

bbc.co.uk

41–50 of 100 posts

Re: Religion may become extinct in nine nations

#41
Religion is a burden on society, a social trait from civilizations past, they lacked the vast majority of scientific knowledge we currently embrace, this "evolution" was bound to happen sooner or later.

Any rational intelligent being should quite clearly see the fundamental floors of all religions, how they act mearly as placebos at best; but primarily as precursors to wars, hours of wasted time per week on mundane rituals, dark ages, etc.

Re: Religion may become extinct in nine nations

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There used to be a saying among French Catholics: "If the traditionalists win, then the liturgical language of France will be Latin. If they lose, it will be Arabic." Muslim immigration into France accounts for the high fertility.

This is horseshit. he birthrates of Muslim women in Europe have been falling significantly for some time. In the Netherlands, for example, the TFR among Dutch-born women rose between 1990 and 2005 from 1.6 to 1.7. In the same period for Moroccan-born women in Holland it fell from 4.9 to 2.9, and for Turkish-born women in Holland from 3.2 to 1.9. In Austria, the TFR of Muslim women fell from 3.1 to 2.3 from 1981 to 20…

The quote uses terms like "Dutch-born" and "German-born." Do those terms include only Christian women who are ethnically Dutch or German? Or do those terms also include the second generation of women born in Holland and Germany, whatever their religion or ethnicity?

I just read the linked article at UPI. It is unclear on the matter.

Re: Religion may become extinct in nine nations

#43
People are realising more and more that it's ones self who is in control and do not need to channel their willpower thru an external entity to make things happen / hope that things will go well. Same thing being that it's modern medical science that extends people's lifetime and cures illness, Education that teaches us evolution, Etc, Etc.

Besides, Everything has a beginning and an ending so it's hardly surprising.

For everything else there's the dream of "The Empathic Civilisation".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g

Re: Religion may become extinct in nine nations

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is horseshit. he birthrates of Muslim women in Europe have been falling significantly for some time. In the Netherlands, for example, the TFR among Dutch-born women rose between 1990 and 2005 from 1.6 to 1.7. In the same period for Moroccan-born women in Holland it fell from 4.9 to 2.9, and for Turkish-born women in Holland from 3.2 to 1.9. In Austria, the TFR of Muslim women fell from 3.1 to 2.3 from 1981 to 20…

The quote uses terms like "Dutch-born" and "German-born." Do those terms include only Christian women who are ethnically Dutch or German? Or do those terms also include the second generation of women born in Holland and Germany, whatever their religion or ethnicity? I just read the linked article at UPI. It is unclear on the matter.

It means born in the country. If they had meant Dutch or German ethnic they would have said so. So it's referring to people on the short road to assimilation.

Re: Religion may become extinct in nine nations

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There used to be a saying among French Catholics: "If the traditionalists win, then the liturgical language of France will be Latin. If they lose, it will be Arabic." Muslim immigration into France accounts for the high fertility.

This is horseshit. he birthrates of Muslim women in Europe have been falling significantly for some time. In the Netherlands, for example, the TFR among Dutch-born women rose between 1990 and 2005 from 1.6 to 1.7. In the same period for Moroccan-born women in Holland it fell from 4.9 to 2.9, and for Turkish-born women in Holland from 3.2 to 1.9. In Austria, the TFR of Muslim women fell from 3.1 to 2.3 from 1981 to 20…

The post you're replying to argues that Muslim immigration has raised fertility rates, and your numbers confirm that opinion. Even the falling Muslim fertility rates, after 15 years, that you mention are far above the "native" rates (2.9 as opposed to 1.7 in Holland, and you call the idea that Muslims raise fertility rates "horseshit"?!). The rates that you cite for Germany show a Muslim population that, even after 40 years, is growing at a rate of 20+% per generation, whereas the "native" population is declining.

To this decades-old immigration that is still growing strong, we must add recent immigrants, who are much more religious and have much higher fertility rates.

Re: Religion may become extinct in nine nations

#47
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It not religion per se that's becoming extinct in these nations, it's just some form of Christianity (usually, a very moderate and modernizing form). Detailed demographical studies show that fundamentalist religion (e.g. born again evangelicals and devout Muslims) is definitely on the rise, and associated with by far the largest fertility rates.

Detailed demographical studies show that fundamentalist religion (e.g. born again evangelicals and devout Muslims) is definitely on the rise, and associated with by far the largest fertility rates. Approximately three minutes after your reply came another reply http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2354753 that cites sources that may allow analysis of what's going on here.

Right, that post however doesn't seem to make a very good conclusion from the numbers presented. I've replied to it in more detail.

Re: Religion may become extinct in nine nations

#48
post #14

Religion isn't the only thing becoming extinct in those nations. Go to Wikipedia and search for "Demographics of X " where X is a nation from the list given in the above-linked article: Australia, Austria, Canada, Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand, and Switzerland. (Nation/ Total Fertility Rate) (Australia/ 1.97) (Austria/ 1.41) (Canada/ 1.58) (Czech Republic/ 1.49) (Finland/ 1.85) (Irela…

Correlation != causation.

Correlation doesn't imply causation, but it does waggle its eyebrows suggestively and gesture furtively while mouthing 'look over there'.

--Randall Munroe

Re: Religion may become extinct in nine nations

#49
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fertility rate in France (as in other parts of Europe) is highly skewed (up) by the immigrant Muslim population.

The birthrates of Muslim women in Europe have been falling significantly for some time. In the Netherlands, for example, the TFR among Dutch-born women rose between 1990 and 2005 from 1.6 to 1.7. In the same period for Moroccan-born women in Holland it fell from 4.9 to 2.9, and for Turkish-born women in Holland from 3.2 to 1.9. In Austria, the TFR of Muslim women fell from 3.1 to 2.3 from 1981 to 2001. In 1970 Turkis…

Falling, but still much higher than the 'native'. Also, the increased fertility rates of the second-generation immigrants are absorbed by these statistics into e.g. "Dutch-born", which skews the comparison.

Re: Religion may become extinct in nine nations

#50

Religion isn't the only thing becoming extinct in those nations. Go to Wikipedia and search for "Demographics of X " where X is a nation from the list given in the above-linked article: Australia, Austria, Canada, Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand, and Switzerland. (Nation/ Total Fertility Rate) (Australia/ 1.97) (Austria/ 1.41) (Canada/ 1.58) (Czech Republic/ 1.49) (Finland/ 1.85) (Irela…

I honestly don't understand your point. Humanity is not in danger of dying out from lack of fertility, Dutch (etc.) culture/genetic stock is not in danger of dying out from lack of fertility, and an argument from eugenetics is both dangerous and likely to be moot when genetic tinkering becomes widely accepted in a couple of generations.

(Also, e.g. country-level wealth is extremely non-adaptive according to your criterion. You may want to reconsider it.)

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