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For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

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Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#461

Post by Ar-Curunir »

greenhatglack wrote: post #160
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical about Robin Diangelo, I read her book a few months ago, and it only seems to be an advertisement for her services as an anti-racist instructor. Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's more a guide on "how not to get fired for being racist" than anything. There are much better books for foun…

There's a lot of money to be made in "anti-racism" and "gender-science", especially in tax-heavy countries. No one ever dares to question it, and it's "good" causes that could use some of the workers income. I'll be contrarian and recommend Thomas Sowell's "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" instead.

lol are you kidding me? If "anti-racism" was actually accepted, then we would have much less racism. If gender-science were actually accepted, then we would have less discrimination against trans folks.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#462

Post by cylinder »

js2 wrote: post #216

By my back-of-the-napkin math, white America owes black America about 10 trillion dollars in stolen wealth. The are roughly 50 million black Americans out of a population of 330M. Americans own roughly $100T in wealth. So black Americans should own about 50 / 330 * 100T or $15T. But they currently only own about $5.5T. We could start by allocating some our our Federal tax dollars to making black Americans whole. Sour…

I believe in reparations but not your methodology (I did not downvote you).

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#463

Post by jlawson »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #456
chongli wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the trouble here is the double meaning of the word racist. When some people hear the word, they think of cross-burning fanatics and mass murderers. On the other hand, the current big conversation is about how everyone is racist and that society is rife with systemic racism. That creates a catch-22 for anyone who commits a faux-pas (like mistaking the black CEO for a subordinate). Either admit to racism and ca…

Somehow you proposed a "double meaning" of racism and missed the actual meaning that's being addressed by our society. Racism isn't about personal prejudice, although it's certainly a participation trophy for them. Racism is not about who is burning crosses, or about who is born into privilege. Racism is a system , a set of rules, rites, privileges and laws that puts 100% of POC at a disadvantage, and 100% of white p…

>Racism is a system, a set of rules, rites, privileges and laws that puts 100% of POC at a disadvantage, and 100% of white people at an advantage, regardless of the rest of their social status.

Can you give any specific examples of these rules and laws? I assume you mean rules and laws that are actually written down.

I'm interested because while it's easy to find rules and laws that are explicitly 100% to the advantage of non-whites over whites (affirmative action, Gladue in Canada, etc), I've not been able to find any that work the other way around.

(Also worth noting "more likely to end up dead for no reason at all" isn't actually true[0]; there's no statistical evidence that cops kill blacks more than whites in comparable situations.)

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evi...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#464

Post by stormdennis »

Pfhreak wrote: post #256
stormdennis wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His anecdotes is a way of putting what he's saying down. If it was a minority person saying something about their experiences that you didn't agree with, would you refer to them as their anecdotes?

What you are asking is a diversion -- he's not a minority, he's part of the dominant social group (at least from my reading). I'm not saying his experiences didn't happen, I'm saying they contradict the wider view. It has nothing to do with whether I agree or not -- his feelings are absolutely his feelings, likewise his experiences. They just aren't representative of the wider whole.

You didn't answer my question, I notice. Perhaps he's a person who has been or felt he has been, hard done by? Is he not allowed to voice "his truth"?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#465

Post by missedthecue »

zerocrates wrote: post #407
dgellow wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a class reductionist?

Class reductionism is basically saying that disparities that appear to be due to race, gender, orientation, etc. are really just economic differences, so if you can "fix" the economic bit the rest just solves itself. The term is, somewhat ironically, often applied in a reductionist manner.

Uh... I think that is more palatable viewpoint than blaming them on genetics

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#466

Post by blub »

lukev wrote: post #121
JPKab wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read "White Fragility". While I completely agree that the stories in this article are hugely problematic and represent issues that need to be solved, I think books like "White Fragility" are not helpful in solving them. This is due to a focus on group identity, and describing "White" as if it's a monolithic group of people, all with the same culture, emotions, and reactions. Another interesting aspect I identifi…

If you wait to do anything about systemic racism until it's fully quantified, it will be a long time until we can make any progress. Meanwhile, a central point of the book is one that should be self evident. Talking about racism makes white people[1] uncomfortable. I know this to be true from experience. And we can't make progress as a society until we own that discomfort and are willing to have frank conversations a…

Talking about racism makes white people uncomfortable because whether it's talking about a specific individual or not, there's an implicit undertone that they're also white and part of the problem.

This is particularly grating when considering that white people are a very diverse group and the experience of a white male in Iran is completely different to the one of a white upper-class female in the US or a lower-income white male in the US.

The US media and social-media have infected Europe with this us-vs-them attitude and are ironically fueling racism against white people.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#467

Post by thrwaway69 »

JPKab wrote: post #78
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect that most people who want to "get the hell out" rather than apologize for racism have little to no experience with making sincere apologies and trying to genuinely mend fences in general. I would honestly suggest watching the video I linked by Robin Diangelo. I think that level of embarrassment/defensiveness would be common to the vast, vast majority of white people of a particular social class in the US,…

"I think that level of embarrassment/defensiveness would be common to the vast, vast majority of white people of a particular social class in the US" Interesting. My response to your recommendation of Dr. DiAngelo's work elsewhere in this thread was critical of her treating "white" as a monolith. Which particular social class of whites do you think this applies to? This also brings up another criticism I have about w…

This is what happens when you make your country hyper profit driven.

It's evident by "who" make these movements trend and then de-trend them. Language now is controlled by a small minority group. It's always the rich white people that it's not funny anymore.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#468

Post by MacsHeadroom »

greenhatglack wrote: post #424
r0s wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, there's not a lot of money to be made, and people constantly question it. Would-be spoilers get educated about their own unrealized bias, racism continues to be a huge problem in this country, activists are vindicated and the world moves on.

What would convince you otherwise? Like what would suffice in order to convince someone like you that massive sums are spent on this? Should be in relative terms to other aspects, like health care or should it be in absolute values?

Revenue isn't profit. The executive coaching industry is far bigger and it's not remotely a cash cow.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#469

Post by MacsHeadroom »

newen wrote: post #412
scruple wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Estimated at $8 billion dollars a year [0]. I found this book review [1] to be spot-on with my reading of the DiAngelo book, and this is also where I learned of the above estimate from the Washington Post. > As a business journalist, however, I’ve chronicled the slow progress people of color have made in the corporate world, even as companies spend, by one measure, more than $8 billion a year on diversity initiatives…

For comparison, US film industry revenue is around $11 billion a year.

The executive coaching industry is $16B/year. (And the film industry is in the hundreds of billions. That's just ticket sales, which are a tiny fraction of revenue.)

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#470

Post by MacsHeadroom »

missedthecue wrote: post #465
zerocrates wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Class reductionism is basically saying that disparities that appear to be due to race, gender, orientation, etc. are really just economic differences, so if you can "fix" the economic bit the rest just solves itself. The term is, somewhat ironically, often applied in a reductionist manner.

Uh... I think that is more palatable viewpoint than blaming them on genetics

Who here blamed genetics?

Robin DiAngelo explicitly said "Biologically, race isn't real. But socially, race is a very real set of socialized worldviews shaped by segregation and superficial anatomical features. The white experience of both the majority and systemically powerful is one which normalizes a rejection of the existence of our own bias and enables us to ignore the existence of radically different lived experiences."

A bias towards normalizing whiteness and being blissfully ignorant of the lived experience of others is being blamed, not genetics.

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