Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 828 posts

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#71

Post by hbogert »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

what's also outlandish is the anglo-saxon view on being the ceo of a company. we're all a slave to the machine it seems.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#72

Post by benmw333 »

kube-system wrote: post #45
olivermarks wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked it up - according to the NYT 'black, indigenous people of color'. Based on this shouldn't the correct wording for 'black lives matter' be 'BIPOC lives matter'? Surely people of color and indigenous people are taking offense at this?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think that non-black people of color are disproportionately experiencing police violence at the same rates?

They're also not committing the crimes, disproportionately...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#73

Post by chongli »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

I think the trouble here is the double meaning of the word racist. When some people hear the word, they think of cross-burning fanatics and mass murderers. On the other hand, the current big conversation is about how everyone is racist and that society is rife with systemic racism.

That creates a catch-22 for anyone who commits a faux-pas (like mistaking the black CEO for a subordinate). Either admit to racism and cast oneself in with the cross-burners, or bail out of the situation ASAP.

We have the same kind of problem with the label of "sex offender." It's a category that runs the gamut from "guy who got arrested for public urination while walking home drunk from the bar one night" all the way to Jeffrey Dahmer.

Scott over at Slate Star Codex has a fantastic piece that covers this phenomenon [1]. The core idea has to do with the tension between central and non-central examples of a category:

Remember, people think in terms of categories with central and noncentral members – a sparrow is a central bird, an ostrich a noncentral one. But if you live on the Ostrich World, which is inhabited only by ostriches, emus, and cassowaries, then probably an ostrich seems like a pretty central example of ‘bird’ and the first sparrow you see will be fantastically strange.

I'm glad we're having this conversation in society. I honestly don't know what to do about it though.

[1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/05/12/weak-men-are-superweap...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#74

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #57
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

I'm skeptical about Robin Diangelo, I read her book a few months ago, and it only seems to be an advertisement for her services as an anti-racist instructor. Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's more a guide on "how not to get fired for being racist" than anything. There are much better books for foun…

> Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's more a guide on "how not to get fired for being racist" than anything.

I admit I only just started reading her book, so can't comment on that, but I would say that's not the takeaway I got from any of the online videos or interviews I've seen of her, most definitely not from the youtube one I linked.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#75

Post by tomp »

ceejayoz wrote: post #64
tomp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's stereotyping, not racism. People make inferences. Like, if there's two folks, one dressed in a suit, the other in baggy clothes with thick glasses, most people (including VCs) would default to the former as the MBA CEO, and the latter as geek CTO Even though it might be the exact opposite! If you make a wrong inference, just accept the correction and move on, no hurt feelings. Similar for old vs. young.

> That's stereotyping, not racism. It can be both. "Women drive badly" is a sexist stereotype, but not racism. "Black people drive badly" would be both a stereotype and racism.

Well, it's still sexist. Same thing. Also, wrong.

A better example would be, "women aren't passionate about driving". That's a stereotype, likely a correct one (i.e. substantiated by statistics... I mean, I'm not certain, but that would be my prior, but I'm very open to changing it), and most importantly: not harmful. It's just a stereotype.

I'm not denying that things could be harmful (racism, sexist, ...). But not all stereotypes are. Like guessing that "Alex" is probably a guy.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#76

Post by scarface74 »

api wrote: post #3
blueadept111 wrote: post #2

wow, it sure is fashionable these days to point your finger and call people racist. Had a rough day? Been confused with someone else? racism.

> Guest after guest walked past the pair of executives to greet their White employee, offer their congratulations and ask how he got the idea for the product. This sort of thing has never, ever happened to me. Nobody has ever suggested that I hire a wingman of a different ethnicity or gender or anything similarly asinine either.

I was a dev lead at my former company. I’m Black. One of the guys I hired was an older white dude. I was taking my team out to lunch - I was the only Black guy. The server came up and asked the table in general was it together or separate. I said it was together and preceded to get my corporate card out of my wallet. No one else reached for their card. She still handed the check to the white guy.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#77

Post by free_rms »

JPKab wrote: post #68
claudeganon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robin Diangelo’s work doesn’t seem to me very good or well informed on what anti-racism actually constitutes. It seems mostly like a schtick to sell to HR managers. The way that she essentializes race seems like a bizarre, inverted reification of whiteness (and by extension white supremacy), than any deconstruction or attack on it. Anti-racism is about taking on the powers and material structures that reproduce racis…

Agreed. I found her work to be devoid of any attempt at connecting her theoretical claims to any form of data and/or measurements. As if two human beings who both happen to be white are the same, when one was born in a trailer park and the other a high-rise in Central Park West. I was pretty irritated to see her book getting promoted by my HR department, who is filled with people who proudly brag about "math not bein…

HR isn't a disinterested party here. The more built-up the theology is, the more role for the Pharisees in interpreting and enforcing it.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#78

Post by JPKab »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #60
quadrifoliate wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I realize how outlandish that may sound writing that out, but I'd propose that the fact that it does sound outlandish is the main problem. That doesn't sound outlandish to me at all. For what it's worth, it doesn't have to phrased in a stilted manner like that. A quiet "That was racist and I have no excuse. I am sorry, and will do better in the future." is fine. I suspect that most people who want to "get the hell…

> I suspect that most people who want to "get the hell out" rather than apologize for racism have little to no experience with making sincere apologies and trying to genuinely mend fences in general. I would honestly suggest watching the video I linked by Robin Diangelo. I think that level of embarrassment/defensiveness would be common to the vast, vast majority of white people of a particular social class in the US,…

"I think that level of embarrassment/defensiveness would be common to the vast, vast majority of white people of a particular social class in the US"

Interesting. My response to your recommendation of Dr. DiAngelo's work elsewhere in this thread was critical of her treating "white" as a monolith.

Which particular social class of whites do you think this applies to?

This also brings up another criticism I have about what I view is an absolute lack of scientific rigor: "White Fragility" is a phrase that can't be generalized to humans as a whole who are members of the dominant ethnic group of their respective societies. One would expect an urban, ethnic Han Chinese person to react in a similar pattern when confronted with their privilege in their own society. Think Japan as well.

Again, no measurements, or attempts to quantify. Which is convenient, when you realize that her workshops on anti-racism training feature an approach that has never been scientifically validated for efficacy in solving the problem.

I really hate to harp on this so much, but I am deeply interested in ACTUALLY SOLVING THE PROBLEM, and that makes me extra wary of people who sell snake oil cures to absolve HR departments of liability.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#79

Post by jt0 »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #47
olivermarks wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's BIPOC?

As a less rhetorical answer, that might help some people if not the OP – as an Asian man in America, I have to worry about people making stupid jokes about my perceived culture, but usually not about getting the police called on me and being shot dead because I'm examining a BB gun that is on sale at Walmart [1] (sometimes, there are exceptions [2]). BIPOC puts this group of people (Black and Indigenous) as a separat…

Adding to this from the BIPOC Project [0] "We use the term BIPOC to highlight the unique relationship to whiteness that Indigenous and Black (African Americans) people have, which shapes the experiences of and relationship to white supremacy for all people of color within a U.S. context."

Not all groups face the same oppression and this term intentionally names the two groups which are systematically the most oppressed in a US context.

[0] https://www.thebipocproject.org/

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#80

Post by brchr »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #32

Stylistic question. I noticed Black and White capitalized in this article. Is that an emerging convention?

Five days ago, the National Association of Black Journalists revised their style guide:

'For the last year, the National Association of Black Journalists (NABJ) has been integrating the capitalization of the word "Black" into its communications.

However, it is equally important that the word is capitalized in news coverage and reporting about Black people, Black communities, Black culture, Black institutions, etc.

NABJ's Board of Directors has adopted this approach, as well as many of our members, and recommends that it be used across the industry.

We are updating the organization's style guidance to reflect this determination. The organization believes it is important to capitalize "Black" when referring to (and out of respect for) the Black diaspora.

NABJ also recommends that whenever a color is used to appropriately describe race then it should be capitalized, including White and Brown.'

https://www.nabj.org/news/512370/NABJ-Statement-on-Capitaliz...

This appears to have been part of what prompted a large number of newspapers to change their style guides this past week, including USA Today, NBC News, MSNBC, the LA Times, the Seattle Times, the Boston Globe, the San Diego Union-Tribune, and the Washington Post.

Post reply on HN