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Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

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Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#131

Post by raxxorrax »

filereaper wrote: post #31

I highly recommend watching the video by Scott Galloway on The College Implosion. [1] "Colleges have become luxury brands and are adopting a strategy of artificial scarcity to create irrational margins" There's a large movement right now where many are saying the large tuition fees for Zoom lectures aren't worth it. Colleges sell themselves for the experience and are a luxury lifestyle brand almost, but with covid th…

3-5 months after graduating university, I thought academic titles would mean something. Today I know better. I think this is a real good development. While I cannot complain about the quality of my former teachers, logistics of knowledge are cheaper than ever before. Everyone could at least listen to the best experts in their respective fields. Subjugating students with debts like that isn't common where I live and it looks "decently perverse" from outside the US.

I think it was always a brand but the educational value is questionable in modern times. What they sell today is mostly access and nepotism. I think a real benefit is the tendency to leave your family home for higher education. Maybe that is why I remember my time studying so fondly.

(I love my family, but if you don't want to get out of there by the time you hit 18, there must be something wrong with you)

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#132

Post by graeme »

contemporary343 wrote: post #43
wespiser_2018 wrote: post #38

This makes sense: Harvard has a huge issue with discrimination against Asian Americans, who are not represented according to their ACT/SAT score distribution. If Harvard could waive away these scores, they can continue their admissions policy that favor students from wealthy families who pay full price, and are likely to be institutional givers after graduation by focusing on admission factors that are much less acco…

They lost the lawsuit: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/01/us/harvard-admissions-law...

It’s being appealed. That’s in your article.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#133

Post by iso1631 »

jimbob45 wrote: post #76
filereaper wrote: post #31

I highly recommend watching the video by Scott Galloway on The College Implosion. [1] "Colleges have become luxury brands and are adopting a strategy of artificial scarcity to create irrational margins" There's a large movement right now where many are saying the large tuition fees for Zoom lectures aren't worth it. Colleges sell themselves for the experience and are a luxury lifestyle brand almost, but with covid th…

I hate the hand-waviness behind this argument. Yes, much of college is not worth it anymore and can be attained online. Still, these HN threads always come to the same conclusion that there remain elements of the college experience that can only be found on campus. Not attacking you personally btw. You seem to see the nuance required of the conversation.

> Still, these HN threads always come to the same conclusion that there remain elements of the college experience that can only be found on campus.

In my view the college experience (societies, living away from home, mixing with people from outside your local area) is far more useful than the actual teaching. "There's a time and a place for everything - and it's called college".

However with covid, all that is removed, and you're left with some lectures (which in normal times you can't pause or rewind, and may well be at terrible times of the day), and an occasional chat with a bored professor.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#134

Post by jerf »

travisoneill1 wrote: post #122
akyu wrote: post #115

I have a hard time understanding the logic here. GPAs are essentially useless, so what else do we have to go off of? "Hollistic admissions" processes seem to be even more skewed towards rich kids, as they have far greater opportunities outside of the class room to pad their resumes in exactly the way that colleges look for. This seems entirely backwards to me. If there is a systemic bias in test scores, it is still b…

How else are you going to keep the Asians out?

Sarcastically phrased, but it's the real answer. The colleges need to shed objective measures so they can continue their social programs unimpeded by any objective standards that might reveal their increasingly obvious biases.

If you want to get into Harvard, I recommend striving to demonstrate greater fealty to the hardest of hard left-wing ideals than your fellow applicants, as that will become the real criterion for admission as fast as they feel like they can make it.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#135

Post by vgtheone »

SCAQTony wrote: post #11
akhilcacharya wrote: post #2

What a weird way to attempt to be "egalitarian" - Harvard's only purpose is to be selective and exclusionary. You can't be both.

I am cynical enough to believe it's a loophole to keep overachieving Asians or Indians from owning a rightful slot instead of a son or daughter of a wealthy donor, politician, or celebrity.

Agreed.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#136

Post by throwaway287391 »

not_a_moth wrote: post #120
filereaper wrote: post #31

I highly recommend watching the video by Scott Galloway on The College Implosion. [1] "Colleges have become luxury brands and are adopting a strategy of artificial scarcity to create irrational margins" There's a large movement right now where many are saying the large tuition fees for Zoom lectures aren't worth it. Colleges sell themselves for the experience and are a luxury lifestyle brand almost, but with covid th…

Anyone intimate with Germany's vocational training system, that's used as an alternative to college by approximately half of all graduating high school students? 2-3 years small salary vocational training straight out of HS at 1 of 400k participating companies in 1 of 400 role types. I want to know why implementing this isn't a national debate in US, it seems like such an obviously good idea.

I'd bet a large part of the reason is cultural. For just about any American high school student who's been exposed to the mainstream culture their entire lives (including myself at the time), the idea of missing out on the "college experience" (i.e. mostly partying) that just about every conventionally successful person they've ever met will have gone through and instead going to "small salary vocational training" would just be completely unthinkable and depressing to imagine, especially if all your friends are following the usual path. I suppose it's possible this may change with Covid-19 but I still don't quite see it.

Edit: could any of the downvoters explain their reasoning? I guess this could have come off as facetious because I mentioned partying or something, but I'm completely serious -- why wouldn't cultural reasons be a major factor?

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#137

Post by vgtheone »

shreygineer wrote: post #47
wespiser_2018 wrote: post #38

This makes sense: Harvard has a huge issue with discrimination against Asian Americans, who are not represented according to their ACT/SAT score distribution. If Harvard could waive away these scores, they can continue their admissions policy that favor students from wealthy families who pay full price, and are likely to be institutional givers after graduation by focusing on admission factors that are much less acco…

As an Asian American myself, I don't understand this notion of discrimination against Asian Americans by Ivy League schools. Per Harvards Class of 2023 Admissions data [1], Asian Americans makeup 25.3% of the admitted class. They're the largest minority group admitted. [1] https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics

They make up 25.3% of the admitted class but would probably make up 75-80% of the admitted class in a system truly based on merit. 4 out of 5 strong applicants are rejected simply because they're Asian American.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#138

Post by raxxorrax »

wespiser_2018 wrote: post #38

This makes sense: Harvard has a huge issue with discrimination against Asian Americans, who are not represented according to their ACT/SAT score distribution. If Harvard could waive away these scores, they can continue their admissions policy that favor students from wealthy families who pay full price, and are likely to be institutional givers after graduation by focusing on admission factors that are much less acco…

This is real institutional racism in my opinion. There are enough reason why Asians tend to do better than other groups without using explanations provided by neo-nazis that grade humans by intelligence or whatnot.

But it just plainly is racist against Asians. There is no greater good to be defended here that isn't a lie. And they even have a history of discrimination with quotas, although I tend to classify AA as not being racial quotas. But if people are measured unequal due to their race, they only affirm that race exists and that they don't treat everyone on their merits. I don't see advantages here.

As I said, logistics of knowledge are so cheap, that good education can reach anyone. Maybe a teacher is missing here, but it is a solid start.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#139

Post by [deleted] »

cyberdrunk wrote: post #80
shreygineer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Asian American myself, I don't understand this notion of discrimination against Asian Americans by Ivy League schools. Per Harvards Class of 2023 Admissions data [1], Asian Americans makeup 25.3% of the admitted class. They're the largest minority group admitted. [1] https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics

In a system based on merit, they would get more placements.

[deleted]

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#140

Post by eli_gottlieb »

travisoneill1 wrote: post #122
akyu wrote: post #115

I have a hard time understanding the logic here. GPAs are essentially useless, so what else do we have to go off of? "Hollistic admissions" processes seem to be even more skewed towards rich kids, as they have far greater opportunities outside of the class room to pad their resumes in exactly the way that colleges look for. This seems entirely backwards to me. If there is a systemic bias in test scores, it is still b…

How else are you going to keep the Asians out?

By throwing them in a gladiatorial death-match with the Jewish applicants, of course. The winner has an athletic character, and is therefore real Harvard material!
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