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Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

tesla.com

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Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#221
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Manufacturers test their own vehicles—usually pre-production prototypes—and report the results to EPA. EPA reviews the results and confirms about 15%–20% of them through their own tests at the National Vehicles and Fuel Emissions Laboratory.[6]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_EPA_fuel_economy

Quoting Wikipedia as evidence, nice. Actually in the recent Model S test prior to this one, Tesla discovered through examination of the data logs of the car that the EPA had carelessly left the key in the car all night while it was parked during testing that spanned multiple days, leading to an artificially low number as the car was unable to sleep at the level it normally should be able to when parked. This whole ep…

And I'm not sure how an indication that a Tesla has been tested (and retested) invalidates a claim that 15-20% of all cars are tested. There have been dozens of Tesla models over the years, one would expect at least a handful to have been verified.

Which by the way would have totally sufficed to invalidate the original argument; the ranges are largely self reported, but they do get checked. The process ensures that the ratings broadly reflect EPA's testing methodology, otherwise you'd see the cars that do get tested having abnormally low range at best, and fines and other action taken by the agency at worst.

A Wikipedia link might be a crappy form of "proof", but as near as I can tell the parent post just made up how he or she thought the process worked. If someone says Caesar lived in the 9th century, a link to the relevant page actually is a valid response. If that person comes back with some source material that says otherwise, then you'll need to try harder.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#222
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick question - do Teslas turn on brake lights when using one-pedal mode? Seems it can brake quite aggressively using regen.

Modern vehicles are required to turn on the brake lights at a given level of deceleration, regen / brakes or not!

So if I'm driving a new manual transmission car, and downshift/engine brake, my brake lights would activate?

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#223
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has big batteries but many other cars have large batteries too. Like the Jaguar ipace, the Audi étron, the Mercedes EQC, or the hyundai kona... About the size of the motors, the Tesla one are actually not that big. Which is a good thing.

Model S is 550-830 hp, model 3 is 280-460 hp. Or are you talking dimensions?

I'm talking about the size and not the max power output indeed.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#224

The Hyundai Nexo EV is already at 380 miles, and it’s a real SUV, not a flat-as-a-pancake Model S. It refuels in five minutes, to boot, but is only practical in California. If they increased tank volume by 5% it’d be at 400 miles EPA.

As far as I know hydrogen is currently mostly derived from fossil fuels. Electrolysis would be possible but it's expensive and still less energy efficient than a pure battery-electric vehicle.

People are willing to pay a premium for electric cars because they're greener. This DOES NOT APPLY to hydrogen fuel cell cars.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#226
post #177
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's most striking to me as someone who has heard over and over again about how air resistance is a X^2 property, is the extent to which short (and presumably slow) trips punch above their weight in terms of range consumed per mile. From what I can tell, the actual cost here is the fixed cost of booting up some systems and electronics, and the variable costs of running them over fewer miles can make the MPGe drop.…

That's incorrect. Power consumption is proportional to drag * speed, and drag is speed^2, so power is speed^3, and energy per mile is speed^2.

True but we're interested in power consumption per distance traveled so it goes back to O(v^2).

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#227

It's great that Tesla keeps increasing the range, but the EPA numbers are ridiculous. I would love to see the EPA range claims for electric vehicles re-standardized to measure: * at the median driving speed on free-flowing US interstate highways * during cold weather * with some hills * using a medium level typical of drivers of cars of the price range A car manufacturer particularly focused on realism could publish…

The fundamental problem is that the EPA tests (and tests in the rest of the world) were really designed to give an estimate of efficiency, not range. For efficiency, they are actually pretty reasonable; the MPGe and watt-hours-per-kilometer actually give a reasonably good picture of typical driving, with a mix of high-speed/freeway and stop-n-go/city driving. But the range you care about in a battery EV is more about how much anxiety road trips induce, which is a much more complicated problem, involving variables like high speed charger availability.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#228
post #146

I wonder how much of this will translate to real world driving. Teslas have generally significantly underperformed in real world range compared to EPA. This reads very much like they're optimizing more towards a benchmark.

If it's possible, every car maker can "optimize towards benchmark". So is your theory that all car makers except Tesla are dumb and cannot optimize their range for EPA tests? That they are morally superior to Tesla and will sacrifice sales by not optimizing for EPA range but some purported "real world range"? And in what way exactly do you optimize for EPA test? I've seen this "explanation" for superior Tesla results…

Other manufacturers don’t optimise for the US market, so they’re not going to optimise for the test which is used only in the US.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the Taycan was seriously screwed by having its track modes, which are genuinely very inefficient, blended equally in to the test. It's a bit of a shame to see so many Tesla fans point to its supposed inefficiency based on the EPA range. It feels like the tables have turned 180 since the Top Gear scripted test days; it was shitty when Tesla was attacked with FUD back then and it's shitty when…

That’s really weird. Is it normal to blend in sport modes? Do you have a link to more info?

It makes sense to me, as otherwise a manufacturer could supply the car with a 50mph speed limiter (which users would instantly disable) to boost their EPA-measured range.

Re: Model S Long Range Plus: Building the First 400-Mile Electric Vehicle

#230
post #207
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's most striking to me as someone who has heard over and over again about how air resistance is a X^2 property, is the extent to which short (and presumably slow) trips punch above their weight in terms of range consumed per mile. From what I can tell, the actual cost here is the fixed cost of booting up some systems and electronics, and the variable costs of running them over fewer miles can make the MPGe drop.…

Additionally if you drive 10% faster you spend ~9% less time on the trip which means heating/AC is working 9% less.

And there’s also some “inherent” value in spending less time traveling that is more difficult to quantify.
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